READ ONLY - Official Quenya Translation Thread - I

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READ ONLY - Official Quenya Translation Thread - I

Postby NiennaSorrowing » Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:58 pm

Due to overload on the Official Translation thread, two new translation threads have been started. The Official Quenya Translation thread is now open for business.

Please keep all relevant Quenya translation questions to this thread and this thread only in an attempt to cut down on extranious threads. I will try to keep all translations added to the first post, so that one will not have to dig through all the pages to find a particular word, if it has been translated before. Also please note: this thread will be rather ruthlessly modded (by me at least), so stay on topic. Thank you, and enjoy.

Your Resident Language Forum Tirno,
Nienna

Translations

"fly true" -- depending on context, either á vile sanda or [/b]á ruce sanda[/b].

"nothing can ever keep us apart" -- uqua pole lanya me tennoio "nothing is physically able to separate us forever"; alt. uqua pole oi hepe me terhátine "nothing can (physically) (for)ever keep us broken apart".

"I'm sorry" -- idiomatic nainan "I lament", or ánin apsene "forgive me"

"tied are not my hands" -- nautë umir mányat
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Postby XXX » Sun Nov 10, 2002 6:40 am

Hi,I would like to know what "I'm sorry" or just "sorry" is in Quenya.Thanks.
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Postby Perhael » Sun Nov 10, 2002 7:39 am

Hi! What is "Fly true" in Quenya?
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Postby Lalaith-81 » Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:43 am

Hey - I'm looking for a name for an ELf (I'm considering writing a Tolkienish story0 Basically I'm looking for a female form of FEANOR... Spirit of Fire, something along those lines<BR>Cheers!
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Postby Sindacirwen » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:11 pm

Hi! I'd like to know what "Nothing can ever keep us apart" means in Quenya?
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Postby Eression » Sun Nov 10, 2002 12:50 pm

<BR>XXX:<BR><BR><i>Hi,I would like to know what "I'm sorry" or just "sorry" is in Quenya.Thanks.</i><BR><BR><b>Ánin apsenë</b> "forgive me"<BR><BR><BR>Sindacirwen:<BR><BR><i>Hi! I'd like to know what "Nothing can ever keep us apart" means in Quenya?</i><BR><BR>Probably <b>Úqua polë oi hepë me(t) terhátinë</b>; though the word "nothing" might just as well be *<i>láqua</i>, I guess... <i>Met</i> if there are just two of "us". Perhaps one could also say <i>turë</i> in the place of <i>polë</i>, since we are hinting at a "forced might that could keep apart (but can't)". According to your lámatyáve. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Didi » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:01 pm

actually the right quenya form of male name feanor was Fëanáro, so female would be Fëanárë i think...
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:04 pm

XXX:<BR><BR>"I'm sorry" -- closest thing would be idiomatic <b>nainan</b> "I lament", but that is always open to debate.<BR><BR>Perhael:<BR>"fly true" -- there are two words in Quenya glossed "to fly", each with a slightly different meaning: <i>vil-</i> from WIL- "fly, float in the air" (Etym:446) has the common meaning of "to fly", as in what a bird does; <i>ruc-</i>, possibly from *RUKU- "fear or horror" (VT:44:7) means rather "to fly <u>from</u> something that inspires fear or horror, or <u>to</u> something that protects from that which inspires fear or horror". "True" in this case would be <i>sanda</i> "firm, true, abiding" > STAN (Etym:433) rather than <i>anwa</i> "of or relating to the truth". Therefore, depending on context, "fly true" would be either <b>á vile sanda</b> or <b>á ruce sanda</b>.<BR><BR>Lalaith:<BR><i>Feanor</i> (a Quenya/Sindarin hybrid) is not gender specific. However, I suggest considering another name for your character to prevent confusion.<BR><BR>Sinacirwen:<BR>"nothing can ever keep us apart" -- <i>uqua</i> "nothing"; <i>pole</i> "is (physically) able to" aorist; <i>lanya</i> "separate" inf.; <i>me</i> first person plural inclusive accusative; <i>tennoio</i> "for ever". <b>Uqua pole lanya me tennoio.</b><BR><BR><BR>Edit: Erresion, <i>met</i> is first person dual <i><u>exclusive</i></u>, not inclusive. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Eression » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:12 pm

<BR><b>Lanya</b> is of course another good verb, though it might require an indirect object (<i>lanya-</i> enclose, separate from, mark the limit of, VT42:8). <b>Tennoio</b> means 'until/for ever', in this case I think <b>oi</b> might be better, since we are talking about negation (similarly Finnish often uses <i>koskaan</i> or <i>ikinä</i> in this context, instead of <i>ikuisesti</i> 'for-ever' -- though it would be acceptable AFAIK).<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Eiliant » Sun Nov 10, 2002 2:30 pm

Hi Nami Chan, <BR>Thank you so much for the translations! I especially like carmetyaro (art-maker.) I wonder if you might be up for answering a couple more: I noticed you dropped the double-dots over the e in the carmë part of the compound word. Is there a reason for this--perhaps having to do with pronunciation? Which brings me to my second question, can you advise me with regarding to pronunciation? Especially about where emphasis is likely to be? My almost completely uneducated guess is: kar-MAY-teh-AH-row; or maybe KAR-may-teh-AH-ro. (with the "r"s slighlty rolled?)<BR>Thanks, Eiliant<BR>
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Postby Lalaith-81 » Sun Nov 10, 2002 4:40 pm

Hmmm, thanks for your help, Nienna...<BR>Any suggestions for a name?<BR>Female elf, fiery sort of chick, (sorry haven't got much further than that!)
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Sun Nov 10, 2002 5:37 pm

Eression:<BR>You're quite right, <i>lanya-</i> should probably have an indirect object. But I couldn't quite face the thought of having to figure out how to say "separate us from each other" in Quenya (and still can't, having piles of school-work to do), so I left it at that. As <i>terhat-</i> "to break apart" doesn't fit quite right either, I think either will do at the present moment. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Lalaith:<BR>Perhaps <b>Náriel</b> "daughter of fire" or <b>Nárwen</b> "fire maiden" will do?
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Postby Perhael » Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:44 pm

Thank you sooo much for the translation Nienna Sorrowing!! I'm sure my Dad will appreciate it very much(It's for a project of his)! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Per
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Postby nami_chan » Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:56 pm

Hi Eiliant<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>The double dots over the e [ë] are there only to make sure the e is pronounced(e.g. órë should be pronounced OH-reh, not as in English "ore"; when in a word like "fëa"(FEH-ah, it is there to make sure it won't be pronounced like English ear). Not essential, but just to clarify for English speakers.<BR><BR>Carmetyaro should be pronounced KAR-meh-TYA-ro with most of the stress on the "tya" part. All r's in Quenya are trilled(kind of like rolling it)."Ty" is pronounced like British "tune"; Americans make the same sound when they speak quickly, "to your" with no pronounciation of the o in to could sound like Quenya "tyor" if such a word existed.<BR><BR>Happy to answer all your questions<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>BTW, thanks for getting this up so quickly Nienna.
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Postby Lalaith-81 » Mon Nov 11, 2002 6:47 pm

Nienna, thanks a million for your help! You're a star, I tell you! A star!<BR>Lalaith
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Postby Varno » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:45 am

This is probably a very stupid question, but here goes.<BR><BR><b>Concerning the negative verb _um-_</b><BR><BR>Can you have this in the present tense <b>_úma_</b>? I ask this because in all the examples I have seen it is written in this form. <b>_umintë_</b> , I am aware this has the pronominal ending for "they" <b>_-ntë_</b>, but is the rest in aorist? , I always see it as <b>_umi-_</b> or <b>_ume_</b>, does it always need aorist when describing present.<BR><BR>Also, what makes this point harder, is that my definition of the difference between aorist and present is cloudy, could someone help me please!<BR><BR>Hantale<BR><BR><b>Varno</b><BR><BR>***<b>Merin sa haryalye alasse</b>***
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Postby Eiliant » Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:42 pm

Hi Nami_Chan! Thank your so much for your detailed pronuncition answers. Wish I could learn Quenya; I've been told I've got a good ear for languages, but alas, I have a short-term memory problem--sometimes can't even remember common English words! (very annoying for someone with a relatively large vocabulary, who loves the expressive possibilites of English) Oh well, just knowing that there are folks like you out there learning and speaking these lovingly created and beautiful langages gives me great pleasure. Thanks again, and keep up the good work! -Frances<BR>
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Postby Pollyanna » Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:32 pm

hi!<BR>can you translate for me please "Tied are not my hands"<BR>thanks <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Eression » Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:41 am

<BR>Pollyanna:<BR><BR><i>hi!<BR>can you translate for me please "Tied are not my hands"</i><BR><BR>Nautë umir mányat?<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Didi » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:18 am

pevarno: perhaps úma is possible, but since i ve never seen it before i think its not published <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR>so tmho you should better use ume (i-) also when a present would be more optional
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Postby Varno » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:31 pm

<b>Aiya ilyë</b>,<BR><BR>hantale Didi. But does anyone have a more comprehensive answer, with a more definite answer, or is Didi right in saying that there are no examples in <b>úma</b>, also Didi, whats pevarno? Where's that pe- come from?<BR><BR><b>Varno<BR><BR>***Merin sa haryalyë alassë***</b>
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Postby Didi » Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:21 pm

varno: your question forces me to go of topic you rascal!!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR>just a typo man nothing to worry about <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> please do not reply to say just 'okay' or something, 1 off topic is good enough <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR>just remember always that i just cant type okay? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:29 pm

Am I getting the impresion that I should start an "Official Quenya Discussion Thread" or something?
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Postby Pollyanna » Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:31 am

I'm a bit confused now <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif"border=0><BR>Eression, is "tied are not my hands" this "Nautë umir mányat"?????
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Postby CarasQuindor » Fri Nov 15, 2002 6:32 am

Guys - maybe you can help me with an old, old problem.<BR>My name came to me before I had even read Lord of the Rings.<BR>This is absolutely true - but I don't really understand what it means.<BR>'Caras' I believe could mean 'Castle'. Quindor I'm not sure about.
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Postby Eression » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:35 am

<BR>Pollyanna:<BR><BR><i>I'm a bit confused now <BR>Eression, is "tied are not my hands" this "Nautë umir mányat"?????</i><BR><BR>Unless you start to have nightly visits by JRRT, it probably is. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby SorceressintheGoldenWood » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:15 am

I would be forever thankful if you could translate this for me, sorry that it is so much.<BR><BR><b>'In that dark hour, when neither sun nor moon gives it heavenly light, the prophecy shall be fullfilled.'</b><BR><BR>I've read some Quenya and I've never seen a word for 'fullfilled'. Perhaps it could be, 'the prophecy shall come to pass.'<BR>~Sorceress
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Postby Varno » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:50 am

<b>Aiya ilyë</b><BR><BR>So can no-one answer my question about the negative verb? well I'll have to put it to elfling. Also nienna, I'll start the discussion thread, unless you want to?<BR><BR><b>Varno<BR><BR>***Merin sa haryalyë alassë***</b><BR><BR>
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Postby Eression » Fri Nov 15, 2002 1:01 pm

<BR>I just wonder if the negative verb really needed a continuative present form..? It would be like "he is not a chicken" versus "he is not being (existing as) a chicken (right now)"... the latter not making much sense, and with the meaning probably first coming to mind would probably rather need a behavioral verb (act/behave) instead if translated to Quenya?<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Varno » Fri Nov 15, 2002 3:51 pm

<b>Aiya ilyë</b><BR><BR><b>Hantale</b> Eression, much appreciated! Have you seen any reconstructions in the present continuative form?<BR><BR><b>Varno<BR><BR>***Merin sa haryalyë alassë***</b>
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