READ ONLY - Official Quenya Translation Thread - I

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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:21 pm

Isildilmë wrote:génial Dhani, vous avez trouvé une belle façon de fonctionner... et c'est tellement la meilleure façon pour toi de te perfectionner ! Je devrais faire pareil... mais apparemment je me suis trouvée une autre vocation assez prenante pour l'instant ! Une autre fois !

Oui, je suis très contente de la tournure des choses aussi! :D Merci beaucoup pour ton support, et pour le petit coup de pouce également. :) Comme tu dis, tu t'es engagée dans une autre vocation tout aussi passionante - ce qui ne t'empêchera pas de revenir au Quenya un jour si c'est ce que tu veux! :)
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Postby hrcamacho » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:07 pm

When my husband and I got married we purchased the Elven love rings as our wedding bands. However, they are worn and faded, and I have purchased two plain gold bands, and would like to have the inscription put on the inside of the ring. I had YATT and the computer it was on recently crashed and I can't find it anywhere to download again. Can you translate for me

"One ring to show our love
One ring to bind us
One ring to seal our love
And Forever to entwine us"

As well as " I would rather share one lifetime with you than face all the ages of this world alone"

and..."I love you without knowing how, or when, or from where,
I love you simply, without problems or pride:
I love you in this way because I don't know any other way of loving"


into Quenya (Italic) and Sindarin (Italic) respectfully for me?

I would really appreciate it. THank you for help.
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Postby syrah » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:12 am

I simply need the name "Robert" translated please....I shall then also transcribe it into tengwar....if somehow you could do both that would be amazing ....if not that's fine :) thanks in advance!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:50 pm

All of the remaining requests needing confirmation, as well as hrcamacho's request, will be answered within the next few days. :)

syrah:

I looked at different sources for the etymological meaning of the name Robert, and it gave me the following meanings: bright, bright with glory, bright fame. The only one of those that I felt was possible to translate with a decently good result is bright fame/glory.

On CouncilOfElrond, they give Calinalcar (light glory) as the translation of the surname Robert, and I believe it is good. It is made of:

calina (adj. light/bright or n. light) + alcar (glory, radiance, splendour, brilliance)

With gender suffixes, you can construct a "masculine-like" Quenya name:

Calinalcaru (given on CouncilOfElrond as being the masculine form of the name)
Calinalcaron (makes the noun masculine)
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Postby syrah » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:12 pm

Thank you so much! I really appreciate it :) on to tengwar translation!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:16 am

syrah wrote:Thank you so much! I really appreciate it :) on to tengwar translation!

You're very welcome. :D

Here are the final translations, reviewed by Vea mi olori, for everyone who needed confirmation. All the requests should be in there - if yours is not, then it must be on page 66 (at the bottom).

Now that this is done, Vea mi olori and me will be working together on all the requests that will be coming, and we will try having everything confirmed by both of us as it goes, to make sure there are no mistakes.

The translations in this post are FINAL. The modifications by Vea mi olori are indicated in
GREEN.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Wilson92
Riddle of Strider

Since Vea mi olori isn't entirely satisfied with the translations of the Riddle of Strider we had found, he refers back to his own translation of the poem that he did on page 51 of this thread. :)

Illi ya ná malta uinyë mirilya,
Ilya ránar lá ná hecili;
I yara ye ná tulca lá hesta,
Tumna sundor ná úarahtië ló nixë.
Yúlarello ruinë coivuva,
Calina huinëllon tuiuva;
Envinyatuva maica ya né rácina;
I rielóra ata nauva aran


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Faye3103
Beautiful fairy

I think you were not looking for the Quenya translation anymore but, just so you know, here's what Vea mi olori says. :)

"Vanima shee" is a mixing together of Quenya and Manx (a language spoken on the Isle of Man in the UK); the full Manx phrase is "Lihannan shee", which translates as "barrow-lover" or "fairy mistress" according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leanan_s%C3%ADdhe). I'd seen it before listening to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa4ZJtqxqvg). And now I look into it, its about a particular spirit on the Isle of Man that seduces men (http://www.monstropedia.org/index.php?t ... annan_Shee)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Riniel
I am Fledgling the hunters bow, straight and true my arrows fly.

Nanyë Fledgeling i quinga roitaro, téna* ar vanya* pilindinyar** wililtë***

*Here straight and beautiful are expressed as adjectives, but perhaps they can still be made into adverbs if you want to. Then it would give ténavëstraightly and vanyavë beautifully.
**I had omitted the d of the stem form and had also forgotten to make the noun plural: now it is okay.
***The aorist tense (expressing a general truth) has been used here. In this case, it contains a repetition: it basically means "straight and true my arrows [they] fly", emphasizing the subject and leaving no room for confusion. If you wish to keep it neater, namely "straight and true my arrows fly", you can change it to wilir. Also, if you would prefer the present tense (roughly the equivalent of English "is/am ...ing") you can replace it by wílar.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

avogel57

Since the version of Vea mi olori differs a lot from mine, I'm going to give his only. :)

From the light of the two trees, that were nurtured by the Valar, came this stone
Bound by the greatest skill of the Eldar that ever was
Coveted and captured by the mightiest evil, yet recovered from the darkness by the hand of Man
Set free from the boundaries of the World, shinning as a sign of beauty and hope to all


Calallon Alduion, tai nér alaina Valainen, túlë ondo sina
Avaleryanë i arya curunen Eldaron i oi né
Yestaina ar mapaina ulcunen anmelehta, ananta rehtanë i mornië i mánen Atano
Leryaina landallon Ambaro, síla ve tancol vanessëo ar estel illinnar.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Keribu
Manchester City

I like what Vea mi olori came up with better than my own alternatives. It is more concise. :)

Breast-like hill township
Ambarndon ambo ostar*

*Perhaps the contraction ambostar would work for hill township as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mirry
Miriam Rebekah

According to Vea mi olori, all the names you came up with are good, and he also proposes Neuma snare for Rebekah.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bboyireland
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain.

Life is not wishing for the (noise of the) storm to pass over, life is knowing to dance under the rain.
Cuilë* úyë merië** i mauro lahta; cuilë ná istië** manen lilta nu mistë.

*Apparently cuilë is a more accurate and recent word for life.
**Here, gerunds of mer- wish and ista- know have been formed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

fearless_Arwen

Everything I gave you should be accurate. :)
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Postby Vea mi olori » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:02 am

hrcamacho
I've done the poem for you, but the rest I'll need more time on as there's no Quenya conditional tense, or word for "would" at all that I can find.

I also couldn't find a word for "seal" in the sense you wanted, so I settled on tac-"fasten", I hope that's ok.

Also, the word for "bind" (avalerya-) has connotations of "deprive of liberty", which isn't what you want (I guess), so I went for the more neutral "tie" instead.

One ring to show our love
One ring to tie us
One ring to [fasten] our love
And Forever to entwine us

Minë colma tana melmelma
Minë colma nutimë
Minë colma tacë melmelma
Ar tennoio liamë


I'll get on the others over the weekend and see what I can do. Then if you post them in the Tengwar Transcription Thread Isildilmë will do the Tengwar for you.
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Postby DanFraser » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:24 am

Oooh, the extra translations are really good.

I had researched some of those mentioned myself but wasn't truly sure on some. However some are better transcribed into Tengwar than others so even though the final choice may not be truly correct you have to remember I'm trying to create a nice looking tattoo as well! Haha! I'm continuing this as a standard translation first with learning Quenya along the way, then when everything is satisfactory I'll learn to be able to write Tengwar (better that is, already mostly there in writing it by hand).

Formaitë had been a version of that name I had considered and still am.
Andaricë... Hmmm. Sounds quite good, especially being able to translate the actual name too.
Not come across the -ssë suffix before but I think i'll stick with Gladhaniel's suggestion.
Encaitar sounds much better than map-
Carnë is true about being red, but I'm still thinking about using aira- as that means copper top in reference to hair which fits with the celtic origin, ahem.

Unfortunately, as my son isn't born yet we're still deciding on names. The new current first name is Seth, of which I have Tulcáno which I believe means established in the literal sense of the biblical meaning, and then Caitanelya which is more waxing lyrical with the belief of Eve that Seth was placed by god, and is the third son of Adam. So Caita - placed and nelya - third.
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:25 am

Sherigo

Firstly, sorry it's taken so long to get an answer to this - I've been busy of late. Your tengwar aren't actually in any Elvish language at all, but English. It's a set of directions, and is literally the following:

North fiftee six degrees nintee nine dot two hundred thirtee (y)eght minutes east tyentee three degrees fifty one sis hundred fo(o)rtee one minutes


Which neatened up would be:

North fifty-six degrees ninety-nine dot two hundred thirty-eight minutes east twenty-three degrees fifty one six hundred forty-one minutes


Hope this helps!

hrcamacho

After scratching my head for a while about those wordings, I've change them around a bit and come up with the following:

One lifetime with you is better than all the ages of this world alone -Minë coivielúmë otyë ar arya ilyë randar ambar sina er

"I love you without knowing how, or when, or where,
I love you [cleanly/purely], without grief or [love for myself]:
I love you in this way because I cannot love in another [way/manner]

Melinyetyë necistëa manen, hya yá, hya massë
Melinyetyë poicavë, uanyérë hya melmë imnë nin:
Melinyetyë sinen uapolin melë exë lé


Hope this is the kind of thing you were after!
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Postby Unclean » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Hi guys, i just found this website and I think it's great that you are helping people with Sindarin and Quenya translations, you guys are the best.

The reason I'm here is that my girlfriend want a tattoo with the quote "take me always with you" (or "llevame siempre contigo" in original spanish). I was hoping that you guys can provide me the translation (and the further tengwar transcription).

Thanks a lot in advance
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:55 pm

Unclean

Take me always with you -Mapa ni illumë olyë/aselyë
Carry me always with you -Yulo illumë olyë/aselyë

This uses the verb mapa-which is more accurately "seize/grasp" than merely "take". Perhaps a less literal, but more fitting, word would be yulu-which is the stem form of a verb meaning "carry". I've given the alternative formulation above, although the formulation of the u-stem aorist tense in-oseems to be a post-Tolkien innovation. I'm therefore not totally sure it's right, but it seems to work.

I've given two words for "with you" as there are two to chose from. The form olyëis explicitly dual, which is what I think you're after, butaselyëis listed as "with thee", which, contrary to modern usage, was more personal than "you". I think it's ultimately your preference which one gets used.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:05 pm

Great translations, Vea! :D I went through all of them and got a few questions/uncertainties. :)

One lifetime with you is better than all the ages of this world alone
Minë coivielúmë otyë ar* arya* ilyë randar ambar* sina er

*Shouldn't it be here? Or even ëa?
*I'm somehow confused about the use of arya. Normally comparisons are expressed with A ná ... lá B, but because arya already contains a comparison, does it mean no other word has to be added for than? It seems to me like it would be weird.
*I can't see the possession (of this world) here. Unless it is somewhere I can't see? I think I would have written ambarwa (possessive case).

~ ~

I love you without knowing how, or when, or where,
I love you [cleanly/purely], without grief or [love for myself]:

Melinyetyë necistëa* manen, hya yá*, hya massë*
Melinyetyë poicavë, uanyérë* hya melmë imnë nin:


*You seem to have used the present tense, right? I believe I would rather go with the infinitive here instead, namely necista.
*Here I'm not sure about the use of , since that word is said to be a conjunction only. I didn't find anything for when as a question word (like it has been done in the rest of the sentence), so I would probably suggest the alternative they give in Ardalambion's wordlist: mana lú what time.
*Could one say massello here to carry out the original meaning better?
*Why an a in there?

~~

Take/Carry me always with you
Mapa/Yulo * ni illumë olyë/aselyë

*Here I might have used the imperative instead: Á mapë or Á ?yulië.
Last edited by Gladhaniel on Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:20 am

DanFraser:

DanFraser wrote:Unfortunately, as my son isn't born yet we're still deciding on names. The new current first name is Seth, of which I have Tulcáno which I believe means established in the literal sense of the biblical meaning, and then Caitanelya which is more waxing lyrical with the belief of Eve that Seth was placed by god, and is the third son of Adam. So Caita - placed and nelya - third.

SETH

With Tulcáno, did you use tulca firm, strong, immovable, steadfast and masculine suffix -no? If so, then the meaning of the translation would be "strong doer", which I'm not sure corresponds to any etymological meaning of Seth I came across so far.

For my part, I would tend to agree with the translations of CouncilOfElrond, namely:

Hebrew: "chosen", "chosen of God", "appointed", "placed".
Quenya: "God picked" masc. Eruleptanero
Quenya: "placed" masc. Caitaino, Caitainon

Also, regarding your idea of Caitanelya "placed third", I would rather write it as Caitainanelya (with a passive participle ending), but the obvious repetitions of sounds really make it awkward and uselessly complex to me. If you wish to stick to a similar meaning, though, Elvish.org proposes alternatives that I find interesting.

Heb. 'third child'; nelya "third", -hin "child", so Nelyahin or Nelyo ("the third one")
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Postby Vea mi olori » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:23 am

Gladhaniel wrote:*Shouldn't it be here? Or even ëa?

Yes, it should be. It seems that my recent Quenya hiatus has knocked me back into making old mistakes.

Gladhaniel wrote:*I'm somehow confused about the use of arya. Normally comparisons are expressed with A ná ... lá B, but because arya already contains a comparison, does it mean no other word has to be added for than? It seems to me like it would be weird.

Helge notes thataryais 'used as the comparative form of[/b]mára[/b]“good”, hence *“better”', which is why I went for it. As it wasn't a simple A vs B statement, I thought that a single word meaning the same thing would be easier to fit in gramatically.

Gladhaniel wrote:*I can't see the possession (of this world) here. Unless it is somewhere I can't see? I think I would have written ambarwa (possessive case).

That's because I forgot it. On closer inspection, the possessive or genetive case could be used here.

Gladhaniel wrote:*You seem to have used the present tense, right? I believe I would rather go with the infinitive here instead, namely necista.

Do you mean aorist rather than infinitive? There's no second verb for the infinitive to use. Either the aorist (as it's a timeless action) or the present (as in present-continuous) tense would do, I think. I remember Helge's translation ofinyë tyë-mélaas both "I love you" and "I am loving you", and though that as it's a constant, ongoing action the Quenya present tense signifying current and ongoing actions was a better fit than the timeless aorist. But either would do.

Gladhaniel wrote:*Here I'm not sure about the use of , since that word is said to be a conjunction only. I didn't find anything for when as a question word (like it has been done in the rest of the sentence), so I would probably suggest the alternative they give in Ardalambion's wordlist: mana lú what time.

Didn't notice that, I like it.

Gladhaniel wrote:*Could one say massello here to carry out the original meaning better?

The ablative case ending? That fits really quite nicely, actually.

Gladhaniel wrote:*Why an a in there

A typo.

Gladhaniel wrote:*Here I might have used the imperative instead: Á mapë or Á ?yulië.

Depends on whether you want it to sound like an order or a request. Mind you, "urgent request" would be more imperative... either will do.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:31 am

Thanks very much for your response! :)

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:*You seem to have used the present tense, right? I believe I would rather go with the infinitive here instead, namely necista.

Do you mean aorist rather than infinitive? There's no second verb for the infinitive to use. Either the aorist (as it's a timeless action) or the present (as in present-continuous) tense would do, I think. I remember Helge's translation ofinyë tyë-mélaas both "I love you" and "I am loving you", and though that as it's a constant, ongoing action the Quenya present tense signifying current and ongoing actions was a better fit than the timeless aorist. But either would do.

I get your point! I guess I just thought no one would say "I love you without know" or something similar. But there's something even better I just thought of, which would eliminate problems/ambiguities with that part: necista pá... "without knowledge concerning..."

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:*Here I might have used the imperative instead: Á mapë or Á ?yulië.

Depends on whether you want it to sound like an order or a request. Mind you, "urgent request" would be more imperative... either will do.

Okay, right! But if we leave the verbs in the aorist tense, I suppose a subject would be better, although it somehow alters the meaning: Mapilyen or Yulolyen "You take/carry me".

So here are the reviewed translations:

hrcamacho:

One lifetime with you is better than all the ages of this world alone
Minë coivielúmë otyë ná/ëa* arya ilyë randar ambarwa sina er

* stands for regular verb to be whereas ëa carries out a more "aboluste" meaning.

I love you without knowledge concerning how, or when, or from where,
I love you [cleanly/purely], without grief or [love for myself]:
I love you in this way because I cannot love in another [way/manner]

Melinyetyë necista pá manen, hya mana lú, hya massello
Melinyetyë poicavë, unyérë hya melmë imnë nin:
Melinyetyë sinen uapolin melë exë lé


Unclean:

Take me always with you - Mapilyen/Á mapë ni* illumë olyë/aselyë
Carry me always with you - Yulolyen/Á yulo ni* illumë olyë/aselyë

*First alternatives correspond to the universal truth "You take/carry me" whereas the second are in the imperative, namely "Take/carry me".
Last edited by Gladhaniel on Fri Aug 19, 2011 4:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Vea mi olori » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:07 am

Gladhaniel wrote:Thanks very much for your response! :)
I love you without knowledge concerning how, or when, or from where,
I love you [cleanly/purely], without grief or [love for myself]:
I love you in this way because I cannot love in another [way/manner]

Melinyet(yë) necista pá manen, hya mana lú, hya massello
Melinyet(yë) poicavë, unyérë hya melmë imnë nin:
Melinyet(yë) sinen uapolin melë exë lé


These need to have the full-tyëending, as the pronominal ending-talso stands for "they" and a dual ending for nouns. While it was once used for "you", Tolkien apparently said later that it should not have any short form. Plus it saves confusion with the other two meanings, in any case.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:59 am

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Thanks very much for your response! :)
I love you without knowledge concerning how, or when, or from where,
I love you [cleanly/purely], without grief or [love for myself]:
I love you in this way because I cannot love in another [way/manner]

Melinyet(yë) necista pá manen, hya mana lú, hya massello
Melinyet(yë) poicavë, unyérë hya melmë imnë nin:
Melinyet(yë) sinen uapolin melë exë lé


These need to have the full-tyëending, as the pronominal ending-talso stands for "they" and a dual ending for nouns. While it was once used for "you", Tolkien apparently said later that it should not have any short form. Plus it saves confusion with the other two meanings, in any case.

Very good point here, thank you! :D Fixed. ;)
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Postby heliona » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:46 pm

Hello everyone. Popping in here to say first of all, you do a great, often thankless, job, and those of us who don't venture in here that much do appreciate what you do and your knowledge. :)

With that in mind, can I pick your brains? :D

I'm thinking about starting an RP thread based in the First Age and I'd quite like to give it an Elvish title.

Essentially, I want it to be "The Hunt for the White Lady of Noldor" (as in Aredhel) and because I'm a nit-pick, I'd like to know the the Elvish was correct. As she's a Noldor, I thought that Quenya would be suitable.

What I've found is:

roimë - hunt (noun)
an - for (=since), to, towards, until (conjunction)

And of course Aredhel is known as Ar-Feiniel

So what I'd like to know is if something along the lines of Roimë an Ar-Feiniel is even remotely correct (and I suspect not, since I know that Elvish isn't conjugated like English).
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:43 pm

heliona:

Thank you so much for your kind words! It's always nice to receive such positive comments. :) Be assured that, for my part at least, the translation of Quenya is loads of fun! :D

As far as I'm concerned, I think your title is correct. :) I'm pretty sure that an conveys satisfyingly the desired meaning of for in this particular case, and there is no other element that seems to be causing any problem. I'm not sure, but perhaps the dative ending would have been a good alternative as well? (Roimë Ar-Feinielen)

I guess you could also translate "White Lady of the Noldor" directly into Quenya if you wished so, in which case you would obtain something like: Roimë ana* i ninquë heri Noldoron

*I'm not sure about using ana instead of an, but I wanted to avoid having a word ending in n (an) followed by a word beginning in n (ninquë), which isn't normally desirable in Quenya. Using the dative ending -n with heri might have been possible as well but, again, the fact that it is followed by a word beginning in n would have been problematic.

Let's wait to see what Vea mi olori says! :D
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Postby heliona » Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:14 pm

Wow, thank you for being so prompt. :)

I wondered if Ar-Feiniel was Quenya, although I assumed it was because Aredhel was given that title whilst in Valinor. I couldn't find anything that specifically said it was, though. :D

Since it is technically Aredhel's title, I may keep it instead of translating "White Lady of Noldor" directly - that may confuse people too much! :D

(Also, I can't believe that I may have got it right on the first go. :D)
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:26 pm

You're welcome! :D

Actually, since you had given Ar-Feiniel, I was assuming it was Quenya and didn't double-check. I did try to find a translation of Aredhel in my wordbook and didn't go further into things when I didn't find anything - although I'm not accustomed to seeing hyphens in Quenya and found the name a bit "odd-looking" for that reason.

It was wrong of me to do that. Please forgive my lack of professionalism - I'm still a fairly new translation. :D Now that you mentioned your uncertainty, I took a look on the internet and found that the Quenya name is apparently Irissë/Írissë. I could only find the following definition of the name, in Fauskanger's wordlist: fem. name, evidently connected to írë "desire". (Hence the alternative beginning with an accented I, possibly, in which case I would tend to privilege that spelling.) I can't guarantee that it is another name of Ar-Feiniel, though, because I don't see any connection in the meaning between "noble white lady" (or something similar) and desire - but this what I found anyways. :P

In any case, if you decide to take that alternative, your title would be either Roimë an Irissë/Írissë or Roimë Irissen/Írissen, as far as I'm concerned.

However, as always, it's better to wait for at least a second opinion. :D
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:40 am

I would go with the dative version(Írissen), because the "for" whichanrepresents here is in the sense of "since/because", e.g. "I had a drink, for/since I was thirsty", not "for" in the sense of "<VERB> for something", which is what you want here.

As far as the link between Írissëand Aredhel are concerned, they're different meanings because they are completely different names for the same person. The first was her birth-name, given by the father at their birth as was the custom of the Noldor. The mother then gives them a name several months after their birth, and this is considered to be a name almost akin to divination in determining the newborn's character. They will also have a self-name upon coming of age (can't remember when), and a name given to them by others. I can't find out which one Aredhel is, but I imagine the last. The change from Quenya to Sindarin in name-form is indicative of her history, having come from Eldamar to Nevrast, where Sindarin was spoken. Hence the two different languages in the names.

As for the phrase itself, I would be inclined to begin itI roimë, for unless it's already been given that title elsewhere, the word "the" would need to be represented. I'm not sure it's a seminal enough event in the history of Middle-earth to do without it; any instance of hunting would not automatically refer to the hunt for Aradhel in the same way that the phrase "the two trees" would evoke the Two Trees of Valinor.

If you want the phrase "the hunt for the white lady of the Noldor" itself, I would make iti roimë i silma heri Noldoron. Otherwisei roimë Írissen(the hunt for Írissë) is what you want.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:43 am

I also thought an might not work at first, but in the wordlist it says in the definition:

The an of the phrase es sorni heruion an! "the Eagles of the Lords are at hand" (SD:290) however seems to denote motion towards (the speaker): the Eagles are coming. Etym has an, ana "to, towards" (NĀ1).

However, now that you mention it, the dative might be better because it's probably less ambiguous.

Nice explanation of the different names! :) I don't know where you found the informations regarding Aredhel (I could only find few), but it makes sense. :D And you're perfectly right: an i should be put at the beginning. :)

Vea mi olori wrote:i roimë i silma heri Noldoron

Shouldn't there be a dative ending on heri to replace a preposition? Also, for me silma refers to silver or something shining white, that's what I put the more general ninquë instead.
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:06 am

Gladhaniel wrote:Shouldn't there be a dative ending on heri to replace a preposition?

I didn't think so, as it's not "of [a] lady" but "lady of the Noldor", and so the dative ending belongs to Noldor rather than lady. It's literally "lady Noldor-of" in construction.

Gladhaniel wrote:Also, for me silma refers to silver or something shining white, that's what I put the more general ninquë instead.

True. I disliked the cold connotations ofninquë, but if it's more about whiteness in general too (which it seems to be, checking related words), then that's definitely a better one to use.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:08 am

Vea mi olori wrote:
Gladhaniel wrote:Shouldn't there be a dative ending on heri to replace a preposition?

I didn't think so, as it's not "of [a] lady" but "lady of the Noldor", and so the dative ending belongs to Noldor rather than lady. It's literally "lady Noldor-of" in construction.

Yes, but then the complete sentence says "The hunt the White Lady of the Noldor" - there is still a for missing. A genitive ending has been given to Noldor to signify a "ruled/ruler relationship" (lady OF the Noldor) whereas a dative ending on heri would express for. :)
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:19 pm

Ah yes. I think I need more sleep when I try and translate Quenya - I'm currently functioning on about four hours. So the final results should be:

I roimë Írissen- the hunt for Írissë
I roimë i ninquë herin Noldoron- the hunt for the white lady of the Noldor

Agreed?
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Postby heliona » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:23 pm

Wow, I wasn't expecting to spark this much discussion!

First of all, thank you so much.

Umm, secondly, after having been told all of this, it may be better if it gets translated in Sindarin. The reason being that I doubt anyone will know who Írissë is, whereas they will probably know who Aredhel or Ar-Feiniel is. :blush: I'm sorry to be such a pest!
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:41 pm

Hahaha, it's far from a problem! Any excuse to translate is a good one, as far as we're concerned.
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Postby heliona » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:44 pm

Well, I appreciate all your efforts. :) I guess I'd better trundle over to the Sindarin thread. :)
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:01 pm

Vea mi olori wrote:Ah yes. I think I need more sleep when I try and translate Quenya - I'm currently functioning on about four hours. So the final results should be:

I roimë Írissen- the hunt for Írissë
I roimë i ninquë herin Noldoron- the hunt for the white lady of the Noldor

Agreed?

Well, being two translators on this thread is exactly for that kind of situation where we don't have all of our concentration hihi, so that's really no problem. :) Those two phrases look perfect to me now! :D

Vea mi olori wrote:Hahaha, it's far from a problem! Any excuse to translate is a good one, as far as we're concerned.

Exactly! :D Good luck in the Sindarin thread, heliona! I'm sure Xandarien will answer your request swiftly, as always. :)
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