READ ONLY - Official Quenya Translation Thread - I

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Postby nazgulsuckz » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:40 pm

Hey

can you please translat my name "Ludvig" to tengwar quenya. i read something about you have to know the meaning of the name to translate it, i dont know if thats true but if it is, the meaning of the name is "famous warrior". But i want it to say "Ludvig" in tengwar, not "famous warrior", u understand? my english is bad
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Postby Vea mi olori » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:35 am

nazgulsuckz

This thread is for Quenya, to translate words into the Quenya language. If you want it to just be Ludvig in Tengwar (Tengwar Quenya is a Tengwar font, which is where you might be confused) ask in the Tengwar Transcription Thread.

If you want it translated into Quenya first (like Túrin Turambar), to have the letters changed into Tengwar later, we will need to translate the meaning of the name. But I think what you want is just to have "Ludvig" in Tengwar, and not have it translated first. Is that right?
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Postby nazgulsuckz » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:15 am

exactly. I want my name just in tengwar. dont want the meaning of my name, just my name
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Postby Vea mi olori » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:06 am

In which case, post directly to the Tengwar thread.
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Postby rammses » Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:10 pm

Hi guys!

I've a question, but I don't know where to post it, here or tengwar thread. Sorry if my question is posted at wrong thread. I need to translate the follow phrases, but i need also know how to write in quenya to make a tattoo. Not only a simple english tipping on Tengwar fonts, but a translate from english to quenya/tengwar and a cursive writing meaning the translation.
These are the phrases:

- Forever and Ever

- The road goes beyond our sight

Thanks in advance
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Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:37 pm

rammses:

I'm not quite certain I understand what you want, so just to make sure:

Tengwar is a writing system that can be used to transcribe many languages, including English, Quenya and Sindarin. If you wish to get something transcribed, you can choose the language you want the sentence to be translated from according, for instance, to the meaning the particular language has to you, and according to the look of the Tengwar transcription (because, of course, the result will be different depending on the original language).

In other words, you can decide to have "Forever and Ever" and/or "The road goes beyond our sight" transcribed from English, or you can ask that the Quenya translation of the phrases is transcribed instead. In both cases, the transcriptions will look very different. :)

So that said, do you want the English phrases to be transcribed, or the phrases translated into Quenya first and then transcribed? If you want the Quenya ones, here is my take on them. :D If you don't need them, no problem - I actually did the translations for fun, so it doesn't matter to me if you don't want them after all. ;)

Forever and ever

In Quenya, forever is translated as tennoio (made up from tenna until, up to and oio endless period, adv. ever), and for the latter part I would probably settle on using oi or vor(o), both of which are supposed to mean ever, continually. As far as I'm concerned, those should be correct:

Tennoio ar oi (evidently a bit repetitive, as oio is apparently formed by oi)
or
Tennoio ar voro (here I would leave the final o since it sounds better, although vor would be possible as well)

Also, I wonder if it would be possible to separate tenna from oio to make the phrase sound more like "for ever and ever" and make it totally clear that for (or rather until, up to) is to be applied to the rest of the phrase as well? So either of those:

Tenna oio ar oi
Tenna oio ar voro


Probably not really eligible since it hasn't been attested anywhere, right?

Another alternative would be to employ oialë (oio ever put in the adverbial form, so everlastingly). In this case, I would privilege using vor(o) for the second part of the phrase - otherwise I find that it is much too redundant. Thus:

Oialë ar voro

The road goes beyond our sight

Considering Quenya's limited vocabulary, I was only able to come up with a translation of: "The road stretches beyond what[=that which] one's eyes can see"

I tëa leno han/ava i queno hendu poli cenë

Well, rammses, if you are to use any of those translations, please wait that Vea mi olori comes to double-check what I did! :D
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Postby rammses » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:42 pm

Gladhaniel wrote:rammses:

I'm not quite certain I understand what you want, so just to make sure:

Tengwar is a writing system that can be used to transcribe many languages, including English, Quenya and Sindarin. If you wish to get something transcribed, you can choose the language you want the sentence to be translated from according, for instance, to the meaning the particular language has to you, and according to the look of the Tengwar transcription (because, of course, the result will be different depending on the original language).

In other words, you can decide to have "Forever and Ever" and/or "The road goes beyond our sight" transcribed from English, or you can ask that the Quenya translation of the phrases is transcribed instead. In both cases, the transcriptions will look very different. :)

So that said, do you want the English phrases to be transcribed, or the phrases translated into Quenya first and then transcribed? If you want the Quenya ones, here is my take on them. :D If you don't need them, no problem - I actually did the translations for fun, so it doesn't matter to me if you don't want them after all. ;)

Forever and ever

In Quenya, forever is translated as tennoio (made up from tenna until, up to and oio endless period, adv. ever), and for the latter part I would probably settle on using oi or vor(o), both of which are supposed to mean ever, continually. As far as I'm concerned, those should be correct:

Tennoio ar oi (evidently a bit repetitive, as oio is apparently formed by oi)
or
Tennoio ar voro (here I would leave the final o since it sounds better, although vor would be possible as well)

Also, I wonder if it would be possible to separate tenna from oio to make the phrase sound more like "for ever and ever" and make it totally clear that for (or rather until, up to) is to be applied to the rest of the phrase as well? So either of those:

Tenna oio ar oi
Tenna oio ar voro


Probably not really eligible since it hasn't been attested anywhere, right?

Another alternative would be to employ oialë (oio ever put in the adverbial form, so everlastingly). In this case, I would privilege using vor(o) for the second part of the phrase - otherwise I find that it is much too redundant. Thus:

Oialë ar voro

The road goes beyond our sight

Considering Quenya's limited vocabulary, I was only able to come up with a translation of: "The road stretches beyond what[=that which] one's eyes can see"

I tëa leno han/ava i queno hendu poli cenë

Well, rammses, if you are to use any of those translations, please wait that Vea mi olori comes to double-check what I did! :D


Thanks Galadhaniel! It was exactly what I'm looking for... But now I need to write these translations into elvish letters. What I need to do? Post these Tengwar phrases in another thread?
I'll wait the double check from Vea mi olori anyway!
Thanks a lot! You're amazing.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:06 pm

Great! You're very welcome. :D

Once everything will be confirmed, you can make a request here to get the Quenya phrases transcribed into Tengwar. :)
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Postby Vea mi olori » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:00 pm

Sorry for the late reply, things have been somewhat busy.

"Forever and ever" is right as far as I can see, I'd go with Gladhaniel's choice oftennoio ar voro ortenna ioi ar vorobecause it isn't as repetitive.

I've managed to construct "the road goes on beyond our sight" in several different ways. I'll lay out a few possibilities below:

For starters there are several possible words for road:
mallë- road/street
tië- road/path
tëa- straight line/road

The sentiment for "go, depart, leave" has two different words,vanya-andauta-. Auta-is the more modern word, butvanya-has connotations of disappearing too. Whatever the verb, it will have a different form depending on what you want to express. The Quenya present tense is "present-continuous", denoting an ongoing action, similar to the English construction "is VERBing". Quenya also has a tense called the aorist (it doesn't exist in English), that denotes eternal, timeless actions, it's more "general" than the present-continuous, but the choice is yours.

In the end , you'll haveautëa(present),auta(aorist), ványëa(present) andvanya(aorist) to choose from.

"Beyond" is eitherhanbefore the subject, orpellaafter it.

"Our sight" is one word, with no other options, you'll be glad to hear.

So in the end we have:

The [road, street/path, road/straight line, road] [goes/leaves] beyond our sight -i [mallë/tië/tëa][autëa/auta/vanya/ványëa] [han] cenilva [pella]

A lot of options! And there's yet more to come...

I'm not sure about Gladhaniel's translation aslenoas the present or aorist tense oflenu-as there's no attested examples of forms of u-stem verbs. Avais "outside, beyond", but this isn't certain and is linked to a word meaning "forbidden", and I don't think being beyond because it's forbidden is what you're after (I could be wrong, of course).

The rest seems ok, but needstaifor the "that which" part of the phrase, andpellacould be inserted too. So you would have:

I tëa leno [han/ava] tai queno hendu poli cenë

It's your choice as to which to use, and once you've chosen, post it inthis thread saying that it's Quenya, and Isildilmë will get back to you as soon as she can.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:17 pm

Among the alternatives you give, I think I'd prefer the aorist tenses (auta or vanya) over the present. I must admit I'm not entirely certain as to the choice of those verbs though.

I was wondering, you give cenilva as the translation of "our sight" - is this a made up word? :) I didn't see an entry sight in the dictionary.

Vea mi olori wrote:I'm not sure about Gladhaniel's translation aslenoas the present or aorist tense oflenu-as there's no attested examples of forms of u-stem verbs. Avais "outside, beyond", but this isn't certain and is linked to a word meaning "forbidden", and I don't think being beyond because it's forbidden is what you're after (I could be wrong, of course).

The rest seems ok, but needstaifor the "that which" part of the phrase, andpellacould be inserted too.

As for the use of leno in my phrase, I got the U-stem aorist pattern here, where they give allo as being the singular aorist form of allu-. But apart from that, you are right: no U-stem aorist seems to have been attested otherwise.
For the "that which" part of the phrase, I had already put i, which is said in the dictionary to bear the meaning relative pronoun, (that) which and conj. that apart from the traditional definite article. :) Tai does seem like a good (possibly better) word choice, though.
It's true, I just noticed the connection between ava and forbidden. However, forbidden is ava- used as a prefix, right? When standing by itself, I don't think it carries out that meaning.
I had chosen to use a preposition instead of postposition pella because I thought it would be more simple to use in the context of my phrase.

:D
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Tattoo

Postby colm.keane » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:36 am

Hi would like to know what keane is translated to quenya? thanks
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Postby Gladhaniel » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:38 pm

col.keane:

I searched a lot for the etymology of Keane and couldn't come up with anything that the different sources I used seemed to agree on. So I'm going to give you translations of the various etymologies that I found - but some of those etymologies might not be accurate. I can't guarantee anything in that regard. Maybe you should do a serious research about the etymology yourself to make sure it's correct. :) What I found is this:

Ancient (one): Yárano
Fighter: Ohtaro(n)
Warrior’s son: Ohtarion
Beautiful: Vanyano

As you can see, the results are *really* varied.. hehe ;)

As always, please wait for a second point of view when it comes to any translation that is done here. :D
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Postby Shiroki » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:45 am

Hey guys :) Was wondering if I could get the word "Grandmother" translated into Quenya ? Thanks in advance - Kev
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Postby rammses » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:33 pm

Vea mi olori wrote:Sorry for the late reply, things have been somewhat busy.

"Forever and ever" is right as far as I can see, I'd go with Gladhaniel's choice oftennoio ar voro ortenna ioi ar vorobecause it isn't as repetitive.

I've managed to construct "the road goes on beyond our sight" in several different ways. I'll lay out a few possibilities below:

For starters there are several possible words for road:
mallë- road/street
tië- road/path
tëa- straight line/road

The sentiment for "go, depart, leave" has two different words,vanya-andauta-. Auta-is the more modern word, butvanya-has connotations of disappearing too. Whatever the verb, it will have a different form depending on what you want to express. The Quenya present tense is "present-continuous", denoting an ongoing action, similar to the English construction "is VERBing". Quenya also has a tense called the aorist (it doesn't exist in English), that denotes eternal, timeless actions, it's more "general" than the present-continuous, but the choice is yours.

In the end , you'll haveautëa(present),auta(aorist), ványëa(present) andvanya(aorist) to choose from.

"Beyond" is eitherhanbefore the subject, orpellaafter it.

"Our sight" is one word, with no other options, you'll be glad to hear.

So in the end we have:

The [road, street/path, road/straight line, road] [goes/leaves] beyond our sight -i [mallë/tië/tëa][autëa/auta/vanya/ványëa] [han] cenilva [pella]

A lot of options! And there's yet more to come...

I'm not sure about Gladhaniel's translation aslenoas the present or aorist tense oflenu-as there's no attested examples of forms of u-stem verbs. Avais "outside, beyond", but this isn't certain and is linked to a word meaning "forbidden", and I don't think being beyond because it's forbidden is what you're after (I could be wrong, of course).

The rest seems ok, but needstaifor the "that which" part of the phrase, andpellacould be inserted too. So you would have:

I tëa leno [han/ava] tai queno hendu poli cenë

It's your choice as to which to use, and once you've chosen, post it inthis thread saying that it's Quenya, and Isildilmë will get back to you as soon as she can.


Dear Vea mi olori and Gladhaniel

I like "Tenna oio ar voro" for "Forever and Ever" and "I tëa leno ava tai queno hendu poli cenë" for "The road goes beyond our sight". Is that correct? Both phrases are ok?

Thanks a lot!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:26 pm

Shiroki:

I would give haruni as being the best translation for grand-mother (found here). I think it's not a very modern term, but it's possibly good enough.

If not, I think you could write textually "(my) mother's mother" or "(my) father's mother". There are several possible combinations considering that more than one word exists for mother:

My mother's mother

amill(iny)o amil
amill(iny)o amillë
amill(iny)o ammë
amillë(ny)o* amil
amillë(ny)o* amillë
amillë(ny)o* ammë
ammë(ny)o* amil
ammë(ny)o* amillë
ammë(ny)o* ammë


*If (ny) is added, the ë before loses its diaeresis and becomes e.

My father's mother

atar(iny)o amil
atar(iny)o amillë
atar(iny)o ammë


Suffixes -iny(a) or -ny(a) mean my, so if you'd like to have just "mother's mother" or "father's mother" with no possessive, leave out everything that's between brackets. :)

Please wait that Vea mi olori comes to give his input about this. :D

rammses:

I think those two phrases should be correct. :) But just to make sure, yet again I would advise that you wait a bit for confirmation. :D
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Postby Vea mi olori » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:30 pm

colm.keane

I also found several meanings for Keane... odd, seeing as they all acknowledge the name as coming from Irish Gaelic. Oh well, the weirdness of linguistic evolution continues.

I'm curious as to why theninYárano. As far as I can tell, there's no reason why it shouldn't beYárao. The same goes forVanyano/Vanyao. Unless I've missed something (which is always possible).

As well asohtar, there's alsomehtar, which I would use overohtaras it get used in a lot of name-compounds involving the term "warrior". "Warrior's son" in this form would bemehtarion.

And just a side-note, Gladhaniel has puto at the end of these words to signify the title "one, person". I don't think that words like "fighter", which already imply a person, need the addition. And it depends on what you want the words to mean. If you just want the word "beautiful" as a name, I don't think theoending is necessary. But if you want to imply a person in the name, then it's a good thing to stick in.

Shiroki
Harunidoes seem the best option for grandmother, as it's an attested translation.

As for the "mother's mother" possibilities, I would always include thenyportion of the words, as otherwise it would just be "mother's mother", rather than "my mother".

I also can't find any use ofamilas a prefix with two ls, so they would goamil(iny)o amil/amillëetc.

rammses

Those translations are all fine, just so long a you realise thatI tëa leno ava tai queno hendu poli cenëis literally "The road goes beyond that which one's eyes can see".

I've also just noticed thathenduis specifically a pair of eyes, no more and no less, so iif you want to include more than one person in the statement, I'd make ithendi, which is simply a plural form which doesn't specify a number.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:05 pm

Vea mi olori wrote:I'm curious as to why theninYárano. As far as I can tell, there's no reason why it shouldn't beYárao. The same goes forVanyano/Vanyao. Unless I've missed something (which is always possible).

Well, when it comes to name suffixes I'm always relying to RealElvish.net because I've come to trust that source a lot. :) The website says -o and -no mean the exact same thing, and I simply thought it sounded better with a consonant separating the two vowels, that's why I chose -no over -o in those cases. Now if it's correct to do that, I can't actually guarantee - but as I said, I usually tend to trust RealElvish.net. Here is what it says about -o and -no:

"Masculine, Male Doer" It can be combined with adjectives, verbs, and nouns. It makes whatever is attached to it a masculine name. When it is attached to verbs, it makes it a male is the "doer" of the action.

Vea mi olori wrote:And just a side-note, Gladhaniel has puto at the end of these words to signify the title "one, person". I don't think that words like "fighter", which already imply a person, need the addition. And it depends on what you want the words to mean. If you just want the word "beautiful" as a name, I don't think theoending is necessary. But if you want to imply a person in the name, then it's a good thing to stick in.

As you can see with the quote of RealElvish.net, when I used -o at the end of names I was applying the mentioned principle stating that this suffix makes whatever noun it is attached to a masculine noun - only when it's linked to a verb does it make the person the "doer" of that action. So yes, of course it's not obligatory, but I think that in the cases of both Ohtaro(n) and Vanyano it shouldn't be false to use a suffix. :)

Vea mi olori wrote:I also can't find any use ofamilas a prefix with two ls, so they would goamil(iny)o amil/amillëetc.

I always wrote amil with two l's when followed by a suffix because of this passage that I read in the wordlist:

If amil is a shortened form of amillë, it should probably have the stem-form amill-.
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Translation Request

Postby mbissell » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:53 am

Hello, all!! I am looking at getting an English phrase (or similar variation if there is not a direct translation) translated into Tolkien's Quenya:

"My light is a product of my darkness".

Thanks so much in advance!!
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Sep 04, 2011 12:09 pm

mbissell:

I'm not sure this is correct, but I attempted to translate your sentence as "My darkness comes from my light". Vea mi olori should come soon and give his thoughts as well! :)

Mórenya tulë cálenyallo/calanyallo*

*Whichever you think sounds best :D
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Postby mbissell » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:23 pm

Gladhaniel, thank you SO much!! It's very much appreciated. :-) I hope you had/are having a lovely weekend!
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Postby Vea mi olori » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:45 am

mbissell

Gladhaniel's sentence is correct, apart from one element;mórëhas the stem formmori-, and so would bemorinyawith the pronominal "my" ending attached. There's also the wordmorniëfor darkness, which implies darkness as more of an abstract thanks to the-iëending.

I also did a translation of your original phrase, hampered by the fact that there's no word for "product" Quenya. I got two possible results, with the same meaning which I've listed below:

My light comes out [of/from] my darkness - Calanya tulë et morniënyallo

My light comes forth from my darkness -Calanya ettulë morniënyallo

The forms are related somewhat, as you can see (ettulë=et + tulë), and mean almost the same thing. I'd personally go for the second version, but that's because I prefer a few long words in Quenya than several shorter ones.
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:52 am

Thanks for the stem tip, I hadn't noticed that! :) Also, I just realized by reading your sentences that I had done mine the false way around: to follow the original phrase it should be "My light comes from my darkness" instead.

Therefore, my entire correct sentence is Cálenya/Calanya tulë morinyallo

If we put together all of our alternatives, here is what we get. The distinction between those possibilities lies mostly in their sound/look, as well as in subtle differences in meaning. But basically, any of those combinations should be correct. :D

[ Cálenya / Calanya ] [ tulë / tulë et / ettulë ] [ morinyallo / mornienyallo]

:)
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Postby mbissell » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:18 pm

Vea mi olori and Gladhaniel, thanks SO much!! Quick question:

What is the difference between saying "mórenyallo" and "morniënyallo"?
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Postby Gladhaniel » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:53 pm

You're welcome! :D

Well, first off it seems like mórenyallo (which I had said at first) is incorrect because, apparently, mórë has the stem mori- (making the correct form morinyallo). So you can choose between either morinyallo or mornienyallo. As far as I'm concerned, I'm pretty sure both mean practically the exact same thing, namely "from my blackness/dark/night/darkness". :)
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Postby mbissell » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:43 pm

Got it. Thanks again!! Much appreciated. :-]
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Postby superlaukis » Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:09 pm

Hi, I don't really understand the way it works there, but could someone help me translate Olympic motto [size=18]"Faster Higher Stronger"[/size] it would be superb, because I want to make tatoo in Tangwar. So can someone help me? Thanks before :)
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Postby colm.keane » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:38 pm

Ancient (one): Yárano
Fighter: Ohtaro(n)
Warrior’s son: Ohtarion
Beautiful: Vanyano

Well im trying to get a sindarin translation as well and it is also a loose translation of beautiful, so could i get Vanyano translated to Quenya? Thanks again! :)
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:40 pm

superlaukis:

To express the comparative, I'm at a loss for what to do. We know two elements can be compared in the phrase A ná ... lá B so that A possesses a certain quality more than B does - but what should be done when wishing to express -er words by themselves? I could come up with two alternatives, but I'm not very confident about either of them.

The first consists in the hypothetical capability of using yonda- as a comparative prefix, giving something like:

Faster: yondalarca (swift, rapid)
Higher: yondatára (lofty, tall, high)
Stronger: yondatulca (firm, immoveable, steadfast) or yondapolda (strong physically)

In the second possibility, one is basically employing separate words to express the comparative: ambë more

Faster: ambë larca (swift, rapid)
Higher: ambë tára (lofty, tall, high)
Stronger: ambë tulca (firm, immoveable, steadfast) or ambë polda (strong physically)

Those sound awfully repetitive though, probably even more so since they are all two separate words. Besides, I found no information regarding the location of ambë in a sentence, and for all I know it could also be placed after the adjectives.

Please wait for Vea mi olori to come and check before doing anything! :)
Last edited by Gladhaniel on Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gladhaniel
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Postby colm.keane » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:50 pm

Well im from Ireland and its my surname so that would explain the reason its coming from Irish Gaelic Haha... Its for a tattoo so id like to try and get as much as a direct transltion as i can...if thats possible! thanks again :)
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Postby Gladhaniel » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:28 pm

colm.keane wrote:Ancient (one): Yárano
Fighter: Ohtaro(n)
Warrior’s son: Ohtarion
Beautiful: Vanyano

Well im trying to get a sindarin translation as well and it is also a loose translation of beautiful, so could i get Vanyano translated to Quenya? Thanks again! :)

I'm not so sure to understand what you're asking here. :) Vanyano is Quenya already, so why do you say you want it to be translated? Do you simply mean you want a very direct translation?

Well, I guess that if you are really certain about using the meaning "beautiful" (which I do not take responsibility for!), maybe that particular translation could be looked at into more details. :D

First, I still think vanya is the better word to use as a basis. I had given Vanyano ("beautiful male") a bit earlier, and I still think it would be good. In fact I even found confirmation of it by Fauskanger:

Ardalambion wrote:-no: yet another masculine ending that is sometimes agental, sometimes not: simply masculine in otorno "(sworn) brother" (< TOR "brother"), agental in tirno "watcher" from TIR "watch, guard" (cf. SKAL2), may be either in samno "carpenter, wright, builder" (meaning of stem STAB not given).

I seems like Vea mi olori would privilege Vanyao ("beautiful one/person") instead, but I just did some further research and I have to admit that I now doubt that alternative would work, for the only reason that the ao sound is probably illegal in Quenya. In my notes, I have all possible vowel hiatuses written down, and ao is not one of them, so I might be tempted to think that it can't be attached to vanya this way. In this source, they are apparently saying that the -o ending can only be applied to primary verbs. I wonder if this is true.. It would be rather odd, but then again, Quenya really is not a complete language! Anyways, it would basically imply that it is impossible to attach the -o infix in any way to vanya and, therefore, that that possibility must be left out.

Other than that, I believe Vanyaner ("beautiful man") would work. :) This translation, along with Vanyano ("beautiful male"), would be what I propose for Keane.

Did that answer your request? :D Of course, please wait for a second point of view before doing anything. ;)
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