READ ONLY - Official Sindarin Translation thread I

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Postby sugarpop » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:26 am

Hi!

I'm new to the forum, so forgive me for not being certain about the way to go about this.
I'm hoping to translate the following quote into Sindarin;

"I would rather share one lifetime with you, than face all the ages of this world alone"

Thanks in advance to anyone that might help me out!

x
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Postby Xandarien » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:34 pm

sugarpop wrote:Hi!

I'm new to the forum, so forgive me for not being certain about the way to go about this.
I'm hoping to translate the following quote into Sindarin;

"I would rather share one lifetime with you, than face all the ages of this world alone"

Thanks in advance to anyone that might help me out!

x


Okay...

Aníron go-garo min lûguil adh gi, athan cened pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui

Which reads as:
I desire to have together one lifetime with you beyond seeing all the ages of this world alone

Unfortunately this is one of the (many) occasions on which a direct word for word translation simply isn't possible, there aren't words for rather or share.

Aníron = I desire
go- = together
garo = to have
min = one
lûguil = lifetime
adh = with
gi = you (informal)
athan = beyond
cened = seeing
pân = all
in endrain = the ages
od = of
i ardhon hen = this world
erui = alone
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Postby sugarpop » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:48 pm

Xandarien wrote:
Okay...

Aníron go-garo min lûguil adh gi, athan cened pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui

Which reads as:
I desire to have together one lifetime with you beyond seeing all the ages of this world alone

Unfortunately this is one of the (many) occasions on which a direct word for word translation simply isn't possible, there aren't words for rather or share.

Aníron = I desire
go- = together
garo = to have
min = one
lûguil = lifetime
adh = with
gi = you (informal)
athan = beyond
cened = seeing
pân = all
in endrain = the ages
od = of
i ardhon hen = this world
erui = alone


Thank you so much! But how about the words
'would', 'prefer', 'live', 'only', 'than' & 'brave'
Are there direct translations for those words?

So that I might write:

I would prefer to live only min lûguil adh gi, than brave pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui

Please excuse my naivety! I'm looking for this translation to eventuate into part of my tattoo design, so forgive me for being fussy. :)

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Postby sugarpop » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:50 pm

P.S.: Thank you again, for such an immediate and helpful response! I'm delightfully surprised!

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Postby Xandarien » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:45 pm

Thank you so much! But how about the words
'would', 'prefer', 'live', 'only', 'than' & 'brave'
Are there direct translations for those words?


'Prefer' was one of the first synonyms I came up with, along with 'favour', but unfortunately neither of those words exist in Sindarin.

'Would' is a funny one, as it's a conditional, and the conditional tense doesn't exist in Sindarin. 'Will' is easy, it's the only future tense form of verbs (I will see, I will go, etc.) that's why I rewrote it in such a fashion.

'Live', yip, that's a verb, cuina-, 'to live' = cuino

'Only' = Not a direct word, but there's a prefix Er- which means 'alone'

'Than' is a conjunction, and Sindarin has many conjunctions...except that one.

'Brave' = Beren

Although I've reconstructed a lot of words for my own (and others) usage, as you can see, the main problem in Sindarin is lack of vocabulary, so you have to translate a meaning rather than word for word quite often.

Edit: There is however, a verb for 'to choose'. Would that help? To make it read 'I will choose one lifetime with you' etc.

Cilithon [go-garo] min lûguil
I will choose (to have) one lifetime etc. (the 'to have together' part could be superfluous if you wanted 'to choose')
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Postby sugarpop » Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:17 pm

Xandarien wrote:
'Prefer' was one of the first synonyms I came up with, along with 'favour', but unfortunately neither of those words exist in Sindarin.

'Would' is a funny one, as it's a conditional, and the conditional tense doesn't exist in Sindarin. 'Will' is easy, it's the only future tense form of verbs (I will see, I will go, etc.) that's why I rewrote it in such a fashion.

'Live', yip, that's a verb, cuina-, 'to live' = cuino

'Only' = Not a direct word, but there's a prefix Er- which means 'alone'

'Than' is a conjunction, and Sindarin has many conjunctions...except that one.

'Brave' = Beren

Although I've reconstructed a lot of words for my own (and others) usage, as you can see, the main problem in Sindarin is lack of vocabulary, so you have to translate a meaning rather than word for word quite often.

Edit: There is however, a verb for 'to choose'. Would that help? To make it read 'I will choose one lifetime with you' etc.

Cilithon [go-garo] min lûguil
I will choose (to have) one lifetime etc. (the 'to have together' part could be superfluous if you wanted 'to choose')




Thank you so much for all of your help, it's really greatly appreciated! I took your advice but I also searched on the web and found a sort of english/sindarin dictionary (realising completely it could be useless! ha).

Does this (can you help me make this) make sense? :)

"im iest cil cuino min lûguil adh gi, sennui od naberen pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui"

Thank you so much yet again!

x
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Postby Xandarien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:25 am

sugarpop wrote:


Thank you so much for all of your help, it's really greatly appreciated! I took your advice but I also searched on the web and found a sort of english/sindarin dictionary (realising completely it could be useless! ha).

Does this (can you help me make this) make sense? :)

"im iest cil cuino min lûguil adh gi, sennui od naberen pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui"

Thank you so much yet again!

x


Right...

That sentence back reads as:

I am (Me, myself) a wish * to live one lifetime with you, rather of atbold** all the ages of this world alone


Im = I, myself. It's not the nominative pronoun, it's the emphatic and the oblique and the first person reflexive. (If that means absolutely nothing to you I apologise!) Basically it comes from the inscription on the Hollin Gate, "Im Narvi hain echant" - "I Narvi, myself, made them".
The nominative pronoun, 'I' is Ni.

The reason iest becomes 'a wish' in this case is because of the pronoun, but also because it is a noun, not a verb (and if it was a verb the 'I' part would come off a verb ending not a pronoun). This is for usage like 'She has a wish to do xyz', not 'I wish to do something'.

*'Cil' like this doesn't mean anything, it's the verb stem. With an accent, cîl it becomes 'he/she/it chooses' (or the noun for 'renewal'/'cleft'). Infintives (to do something) are always an 'o' on the end - cilo = to choose

**I'm assuming you've tried to make a compound.
Na = at (a point in time)
Beren = Bold

Incidentally, if you want the word bravery, it is berenas, if you want the word bravest, it is is ro-veren.

(Not that the word actually makes any sense compounded like this, but for future reference you would mutate beren so it becomes veren, the joys of prestanneth).

And I've ended up giving a slight impromptu Sindarin lesson, don't know how that happened :?

_______________________________________________________

If you like the idea of using 'a wish' in the sentence, what about

Gerin iest = I have a wish
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Postby Mmarieta » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:50 am

Hey! Could you translate those quotes to me? :)


Everyone is building their own future.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Through the love, through the tears, through the pain.
Happiness is not worth to look for, it will find you.
Follow your dreams to get what you want.
Born to survive.
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Postby Xandarien » Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:33 am

Mmarieta wrote:Hey! Could you translate those quotes to me? :)


Everyone is building their own future.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Through the love, through the tears, through the pain.
Happiness is not worth to look for, it will find you.
Follow your dreams to get what you want.
Born to survive.



Everyone is building their own future.
Adanath cerir i eberaid în
(All men build their own tomorrows)
Had to rewrite this one slightly as it wasn't really very good English (plus it didn't work into Sindarin).

Through the love, through the tears, through the pain.
Trî i veleth, trî i nîn, trî i naeg
Word for word, this one.

Happiness is not worth to look for, it will find you.
ú-diro an ['ell/'lass], radatha an [le/gi]
(Don't look for joy, it will find a way to you)
'ell/'lass = both mean joy, pick which one you prefer
Le = Formal, use this if you don't know the person well
Gi = Informal, use this if you do know the person well

Follow your dreams to get what you want.
Aphado i elei lîn garo man anírol - Use this one for formal, if you're talking to someone you don't know
or
Aphado i elei gîn garo man anírog - Use this one for informal, if you know well the person you're talking to

Born to survive.
Onnen brono
Word for word, this one.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
Man l'ú dhago câr l'athan velt
(What doesn't slay you makes you more strong)

Edit - forgot to mutate a couple of words *slap wrist*
Last edited by Xandarien on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Mmarieta » Tue Feb 07, 2012 8:19 am

Thank you!! :)
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Postby smcfarland » Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Thanks! And I appologize for making a new post instead of replying to post.
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Postby sugarpop » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:22 am

Xandarien wrote:Right...

That sentence back reads as:

I am (Me, myself) a wish * to live one lifetime with you, rather of atbold** all the ages of this world alone


Im = I, myself. It's not the nominative pronoun, it's the emphatic and the oblique and the first person reflexive. (If that means absolutely nothing to you I apologise!) Basically it comes from the inscription on the Hollin Gate, "Im Narvi hain echant" - "I Narvi, myself, made them".
The nominative pronoun, 'I' is Ni.

The reason iest becomes 'a wish' in this case is because of the pronoun, but also because it is a noun, not a verb (and if it was a verb the 'I' part would come off a verb ending not a pronoun). This is for usage like 'She has a wish to do xyz', not 'I wish to do something'.

*'Cil' like this doesn't mean anything, it's the verb stem. With an accent, cîl it becomes 'he/she/it chooses' (or the noun for 'renewal'/'cleft'). Infintives (to do something) are always an 'o' on the end - cilo = to choose

**I'm assuming you've tried to make a compound.
Na = at (a point in time)
Beren = Bold

Incidentally, if you want the word bravery, it is berenas, if you want the word bravest, it is is ro-veren.

(Not that the word actually makes any sense compounded like this, but for future reference you would mutate beren so it becomes veren, the joys of prestanneth).

And I've ended up giving a slight impromptu Sindarin lesson, don't know how that happened :?

_______________________________________________________

If you like the idea of using 'a wish' in the sentence, what about

Gerin iest = I have a wish



I appreciate the impromptu lesson on Sindarin greatly! Although you would be correct - I am struggling to fully understand haha. I'll get there!

Thank you also for your help thus far, I really cannot express how much I appreciate it.



Alright, but now I have a few questions as I think I'm more confused than I was to begin with:



1.)

This:

Xandarien wrote:Unfortunately this is one of the (many) occasions on which a direct word for word translation simply isn't possible, there aren't words for rather or share.

I find to contradict with this:
Xandarien wrote:I am (Me, myself) a wish * to live one lifetime with you, rather of atbold** all the ages of this world alone

...being that you originally state there is no direct word translation for 'rather.' I found this word 'sennui' on a PDF document online, detailing a Sindarin/English dictionary. It is listed to mean 'instead' - hence why i put 'od' (of) after it. So i guess my question would be, would it be suffice to simply use 'sennui' and continue with the rest of the quote?



2.)

This:

Xandarien wrote:'Brave' = Beren

I find to contradict with this:
Xandarien wrote:Beren = Bold

Incidentally, if you want the word bravery, it is berenas , if you want the word bravest, it is is ro-veren .

I did want to use the word 'brave' to replace the word 'face', if possible, as neither you nor I know of a direct appropriate translation of 'face' in the context it used within the quote.

___________________________________________________________

Okay, we certainly must be getting closer!
How about the following, is this possible/could you please correct the grammar, etc., where necessary?

I ---------------------- ni
choose --------------- cilo
to live ---------------- cuino
one ------------------ min
lifetime -------------- lûguil
together ------------- go-
with ------------------ adh
you ------------------ gi
than (instead of) --- sennui (od?)
brave ---------------- beren
all ------------------- pân
the ages ------------ in endrain
of -------------------- od
this world ----------- i ardhorn hen
alone --------------- erui

"ni cilo cuino min lûguil go- adh gi sennui beren pân in endrain od i ardhorn hen erui."


Thank you again so much Xandarien (and anyone else who can help me!)
I apologise for being so fussy - as I'm designing my own tattoos I guess I'm handling the project as a bit of a perfectionist!

Thanks again :)


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Postby Xandarien » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:22 am

sugarpop wrote:

I appreciate the impromptu lesson on Sindarin greatly! Although you would be correct - I am struggling to fully understand haha. I'll get there!

Thank you also for your help thus far, I really cannot express how much I appreciate it.



Alright, but now I have a few questions as I think I'm more confused than I was to begin with:



1.)

This:

Xandarien wrote:Unfortunately this is one of the (many) occasions on which a direct word for word translation simply isn't possible, there aren't words for rather or share.

I find to contradict with this:
Xandarien wrote:I am (Me, myself) a wish * to live one lifetime with you, rather of atbold** all the ages of this world alone

...being that you originally state there is no direct word translation for 'rather.' I found this word 'sennui' on a PDF document online, detailing a Sindarin/English dictionary. It is listed to mean 'instead' - hence why i put 'od' (of) after it. So i guess my question would be, would it be suffice to simply use 'sennui' and continue with the rest of the quote?



2.)

This:

Xandarien wrote:'Brave' = Beren

I find to contradict with this:
Xandarien wrote:Beren = Bold

Incidentally, if you want the word bravery, it is berenas , if you want the word bravest, it is is ro-veren .

I did want to use the word 'brave' to replace the word 'face', if possible, as neither you nor I know of a direct appropriate translation of 'face' in the context it used within the quote.

___________________________________________________________

Okay, we certainly must be getting closer!
How about the following, is this possible/could you please correct the grammar, etc., where necessary?

I ---------------------- ni
choose --------------- cilo
to live ---------------- cuino
one ------------------ min
lifetime -------------- lûguil
together ------------- go-
with ------------------ adh
you ------------------ gi
than (instead of) --- sennui (od?)
brave ---------------- beren
all ------------------- pân
the ages ------------ in endrain
of -------------------- od
this world ----------- i ardhorn hen
alone --------------- erui

"ni cilo cuino min lûguil go- adh gi sennui beren pân in endrain od i ardhorn hen erui."


Thank you again so much Xandarien (and anyone else who can help me!)
I apologise for being so fussy - as I'm designing my own tattoos I guess I'm handling the project as a bit of a perfectionist!

Thanks again :)


x


Beren is used for both bold and brave, sorry, that was simply a case of me forgetting not everyone knows that.

Regarding 'sennui' and 'rather' - I'm not ashamed to admit when I've made a mistake; when I do translations I do 95% of it from memory, and I a) forgot that sennui exists and b) had a brain fart moment when thinking up synonyms!

Okay, let's have a look at this sentence.

"ni cilo cuino min lûguil go-adh gi sennui beren pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui."

Go- is meant to be used on verbs, I'm sitting here scratching my head a bit wondering if you could attach it to a preposition. I suppose it could work, the meaning is obvious.

I'd keep od after sennui.

The problem with using beren here is that you're trying to use it as a verb (to brave the ages), whereas it's just an adjective. Can't really construct a gerund (-ing form) from an adjective like this either...
What about breniad = enduring?

Ni gilo cuino min lûguil go-adh gi sennui od vreniad pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui.

(Cilo changes to gilo due to the joyousness of mutation.)

Edit - and breniad to vreniad.

I completely understand you want it to be perfect, I went over the text for my own many times to make sure I hadn't made any silly errors. I simply suggest alternatives and how to construct the sentence from what people give me (some are more possible than others), so don't be afraid to say "well actually I'd prefer this, not that".
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Postby sugarpop » Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:48 am

Xandarien wrote:
Beren is used for both bold and brave, sorry, that was simply a case of me forgetting not everyone knows that.

Regarding 'sennui' and 'rather' - I'm not ashamed to admit when I've made a mistake; when I do translations I do 95% of it from memory, and I a) forgot that sennui exists and b) had a brain fart moment when thinking up synonyms!

Okay, let's have a look at this sentence.

"ni cilo cuino min lûguil go-adh gi sennui beren pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui."

Go- is meant to be used on verbs, I'm sitting here scratching my head a bit wondering if you could attach it to a preposition. I suppose it could work, the meaning is obvious.

I'd keep od after sennui.

The problem with using beren here is that you're trying to use it as a verb (to brave the ages), whereas it's just an adjective. Can't really construct a gerund (-ing form) from an adjective like this either...
What about breniad = enduring?

Ni gilo cuino min lûguil go-adh gi sennui od vreniad pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui.

(Cilo changes to gilo due to the joyousness of mutation.)

Edit - and breniad to vreniad.

I completely understand you want it to be perfect, I went over the text for my own many times to make sure I hadn't made any silly errors. I simply suggest alternatives and how to construct the sentence from what people give me (some are more possible than others), so don't be afraid to say "well actually I'd prefer this, not that".





"Ni gilo cuino min lûguil go-adh gi sennui od vreniad pân in endrain od i ardhon hen erui."

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH!!! :lol:

I'm satisfied now, much to your relief I'm sure!

Thanks once again for all of your advice. I respect your work on this forum very much.


x

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Postby TinyHobbit » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:56 pm

Hi there! I stumbled upon this forum while browsing in vain for help translating an english text into Sindarin - for a tattoo that I am planning to have - like apparently so many others :-)

Is it possible that you could help me translating the following sentence?

".. But greatest of all is love"

Maybe there is another better wording for it in Sindarin - in case this does not matter, since it is the essence of the sentence, that I like.. that at the end of the day, nothing is greater than love.

Thanks a million times in advance!
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Postby Xandarien » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:22 pm

TinyHobbit wrote:Hi there! I stumbled upon this forum while browsing in vain for help translating an english text into Sindarin - for a tattoo that I am planning to have - like apparently so many others :-)

Is it possible that you could help me translating the following sentence?

".. But greatest of all is love"

Maybe there is another better wording for it in Sindarin - in case this does not matter, since it is the essence of the sentence, that I like.. that at the end of the day, nothing is greater than love.

Thanks a million times in advance!


Dan ro-veleg od bân meleth

One of those rare occasions where it's completely word for word!

Dan = But
ro-veleg = greatest
od = of
pân = all (becomes bân)
(is) meleth = love

There is a verb for 'to be' but it doesn't really fit in this type of sentence, plus the words 'is' and 'are' are usually implied in Sindarin (well, we put them in when we translate back into English anyway, the Elves don't use them per se).
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translation

Postby smokinjbe » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:08 pm

can anyone help me translate My Love?
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Re: translation

Postby Xandarien » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:33 am

smokinjbe wrote:can anyone help me translate My Love?


Melethig

:)
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Postby smokinjbe » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:56 am

Thank you very much for the help
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Postby smokinjbe » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:41 am

Can anyone help me translate this quote? Thanks for all the help.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
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Postby Dewidh » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:23 pm


Hi Xandarien.

I hope you can translate this phrase to Sindarin: "Only the truth shall make you free" ("Sólo la verdad os hará libres").

I put it in Spanish and English but you can choose the easier one to translate it.

Thanks for your time!
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Postby Xandarien » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:31 pm

Smokinjbe - Very sorry, I only just realised you'd made another post with a request! Doing it right now.

Dewidh - Yip, I'll do it either tonight when I finish my raid on LoTRO or tomorrow morning.
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Postby smokinjbe » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:14 pm

No problem, it is much appreciated.
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Postby Dewidh » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:37 pm

Xandarien wrote:Dewidh - Yip, I'll do it either tonight when I finish my raid on LoTRO or tomorrow morning.


Good luck against the raid and don't worry about my translate! :D
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Postby Xandarien » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:51 pm

smokinjbe wrote:Can anyone help me translate this quote? Thanks for all the help.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


Had to reword it a wee bit...

Gwaith lostar [adh sîdh/sîdhweg] m'i choest dîn na fuin [sui/ir] edain [rhaw/vregol] derir laeg caro breged andin

Gwaith = people
lostar = (they) sleep
adh sîdh = with peace / sîdhweg = peaceful (no word for peacefully)
m'i choest dîn = in their beds
na fuin = at night
sui = as / ir = while
edain = men
rhaw = Wild, untamed / b(v)regol = Violent (no word for rough)
derir = they stand
laeg = keen (no word for ready)
caro = to do/make
breged = violence
andin = for them

If there's another synonym for any of the words I've changed that you would prefer, let me know!

(The English concept of 'only xyz' isn't something that occurs in Sindarin, I can either write 'alone', or reword it more, as I have done).
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Postby Xandarien » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:59 pm

Dewidh wrote:
Hi Xandarien.

I hope you can translate this phrase to Sindarin: "Only the truth shall make you free" ("Sólo la verdad os hará libres").

I put it in Spanish and English but you can choose the easier one to translate it.

Thanks for your time!


Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, so you've got the English. :)

There's no word for truth in Sindarin (which has bugged me in the past).
What about...

Ist dîr erui [le/ci] leithatha

"Straight/right knowledge alone will set you free"

Ist = Knowledge
dîr = right, straight (as in it does not deviate from the correct path, not that it's a straight line)
Erui = Alone (Same problem as the previous translation, there is no word for 'only')
Le = You (Formal, someone you do not know) / Ci = You (Informal)
Leithatha = (it) will set free
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Postby Dewidh » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:10 am

Xandarien wrote:Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, so you've got the English. :)

There's no word for truth in Sindarin (which has bugged me in the past).
What about...

Ist dîr erui [le/ci] leithatha

"Straight/right knowledge alone will set you free"

Ist = Knowledge
dîr = right, straight (as in it does not deviate from the correct path, not that it's a straight line)
Erui = Alone (Same problem as the previous translation, there is no word for 'only')
Le = You (Formal, someone you do not know) / Ci = You (Informal)
Leithatha = (it) will set free


Thanks so much :D

I tried to translate the phrase by myself but I know very little about Sindarin (ok, absolutely nothing) so I decided asking someone with more knowledge that could solve the problem and now the phrase has better meaning than the original, seems even told by Elrond!!

Thanks for your time, but I have one last request. If there is no word for Only, we could remove it in the original phrase, so you could translate "Truth shall make you free". Knowledge is a very good word to replace truth, but I don't know if the final phrase in Sindarin will be "Ist dîr [le/ci] leithatha" or it's a bit more complicated.

I hope you can answer me. Namarië ^_^


PD: Le or Ci are plural? I know that in English the pronoun "you" is singular and plurar, but perhaps in Sindarin there is one of each type...
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Postby Xandarien » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 am

Dewidh wrote:If there is no word for Only, we could remove it in the original phrase, so you could translate "Truth shall make you free" . Knowledge is a very good word to replace truth, but I don't know if the final phrase in Sindarin will be "Ist dîr [le/ci] leithatha" or it's a bit more complicated.


No, it really is that simple, you're quite correct!

Le/Ci are the same in both the singular and the plural :).
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Postby Dewidh » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:36 am

Xandarien wrote:No, it really is that simple, you're quite correct!

Le/Ci are the same in both the singular and the plural :).


Wow, then it's over!

I'll talk to Isildilmë right now. Thanks very much :o
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Postby Insomaniac » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:43 am

This is such a cool part of the forum, it's too bad Tolkien never really created a full language. Well anyhow I would like to know the closest you can get to "Fear is the path to the dark side"

Thanks in advance guys, I want to find my place on the forum and become active very soon but I need to wait for my books to get here.
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