The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien - The One Ring

by **Unwin** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:40 am

I'm trying to compile some one-liners (<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>) from LOTR that can be used as proverbs. I'm referring to short statements that can stand alone as proverbs, even independently of any LOTR context. For example: "One who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters." "He that flies counts every foeman twice". Wonder if any of you know of a list somewhere? If not, let's compile a list shall we?

by **Trahald1973** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 1:43 am

'He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.'

by **scirocco** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:51 am

'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens,' said Gimli. 'Maybe,' said Elrond, 'but let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.' 'Yet sworn word may strengthen quaking heart,' said Gimli. 'Or break it,' said Elrond... 'It's an ill wind as blows nobody no good, as I always say. And All's well as ends Better!' (the Gaffer) 'Oft hope is born, when all is forlorn...'(Legolas) 'Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never...' (Eomer) 'Rede oft is found at the rising of the Sun...' (Legolas) 'There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark...' (Aragorn) 'Often does hatred hurt itself...' (Gandalf) 'But it has long been said: oft evil will shall evil mar.' (Theoden) 'But "handsome is as handsome does" we say...' (Sam) 'Where there's life there's hope, as my Gaffer used to say; and need of vittles, as he mostways used to add...' (Sam)

by **pippinsqueak** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:45 am

One of my favourites: Don't take names to yourself . . . it is unwise, whether they are true or false" From The Stairs of Cirith Ungol, Frodo to Gollum after he has called himself a "sneak" and blamed Sam for giving him the name.

by **Giliath** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:46 am

One of my favourites: "Few can forsee whither their road will lead them till they come to its end." Legolas.

by **Morinehtar** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:46 am

A couple more...<UL>Saruman: "One thief deserves another" or [...] "One ill turn deserves another." Bilbo: [...] "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats!"</UL> Of course The Hobbit also has some that would qualify...<UL> "Escaping goblins to be caught by wolves!" "Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb. </UL>

by **Giliath** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:04 am

A couple more again (I suppose): "But do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know." -Celeborn "Council is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill" -Gildor

by **Eluchil** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 10:08 am

"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger." and "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they say both no and yes."

by **Beren02** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 am

I don't know if this qualifies as a proverb per se, but it is one of my favorite quotes from LOTR. Also, I'm not sure if this is the exact wording since I don't have my copy with me: I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. - Faramir I believe

by **Luthien_elentari** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 12:44 pm

Just a side thought, speaking of quotes. I read this in the Globe and Mail this morning: Misquotation, is in fact, the pride and privilege of the learned. A widely read man never quotes accurately, for the rather obvious reason that he has read too widely. -Hesketh Pearson (1887-1964) Forgot my "proverb": "Help shall oft come from the hands of the weak when he wise falter." -Mithrandir Note: This isn't actually LOTR, but the Silmarillion 2nd Note: For the purpose of making it an all-purpose proverb, I didn't put a capital on the "wise", but it's written "Wise" in the book.

by **Elfstone** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:57 pm

"There are some perils from which a man must flee." Faramir, near the end of 'The Window on the West'.

by **Unwin** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:27 pm

Wonderful list! Thing is... you've all almost cleaned out my own list. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Here's some orc wisdom from Gorbag(!): ...you've caught the kitten and let the cat escape.

by **Uialiel** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:38 pm

All of these quotes are found in the Return of the King. I'm sorry if any repeat those previously posted. "The hasty stroke goes oft astray" Aragorn, THE PASSING OF THE GREY COMPANY "In the morning counsels are best, and night changes many thoughts" Theoden, THE MUSTER OF ROHAN "Where will wants not, a way opens" - Eowyn, as Dernhelm, THE MUSTER OF ROHAN "...A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend" - Gandalf, THE SIEGE OF GONDOR "Much must be risked in war" - Denethor, THE SIEGE OF GONDOR "Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never" - Eomer, THE RIDE OF THE ROHIRRIM "...Hope oft decieves...Yet twice blessed is help unlooked for" - Eomer, THE BATTLE OF THE PELENNOR FIELDS "Oft hope is born, when all is forlorn" Gimli, recalling words of Legolas, THE LAST DEBATE "To waver is to fall" - Aragorn, THE LAST DEBATE "Talking won't mend nothing" - Sam, MOUNT DOOM "A snake without fangs may crawl where he will" - Treebeard, MANY PARTINGS "It is usless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing" - Frodo, THE SCOURING OF THE SHIRE "It must be so if things are in danger; someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them" - Frodo, THE GREY HAVENS "...Not all tears are evil" - Gandalf, THE GREY HAVENS

by **Unwin** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 9:24 pm

Here's one more from the Gaffer as quoted by Sam. (Come to think of it, we can probably come up with a whole pile of Gaffer proverbs.) It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.

by **Cirion_12thRulingSteward** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:35 am

How about this one... "All that is gold does not glitter"...etc.etc.

by **Cirion_12thRulingSteward** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:49 am

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

by **Luthien_elentari** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:44 pm

Hmm, Unwin, maybe you should define the word "proverb".<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I think some are confusing proverbs with philosophical quotes.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **Unwin** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:18 pm

Hmm, Unwin, maybe you should define the word "proverb". Ulppp.... I honestly have not given much thought to a definition... I have always thought of a proverb as... well... a metaphor meant to explain some common wisdom in a simple way. Something the Gaffer would say just to bring a point across. And half of his lines seem to be... I wonder which ones in this list are original Tolkien and which ones are really part of English folklore. For example, "All that is gold does not glitter..." seems to be a paraphrase of Shakespeare. Here's one more... From Gandalf to Pippin ...the burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart.

by **Dad-human** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:30 pm

"Make it short, then you will not have to cut it short to use it." -the Gaffer (might not be exact words)

by **Morinehtar** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:52 pm

One of my favourites:<UL>Orc slave-driver: 'Where there's a whip there's a will, my slugs [...]'</UL>

by **Novice** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:46 pm

Frodo: "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes." Gildor: "Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill." Gildor: "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger. " Pippin: "Short cuts make long delays." Sam: (on the importance of listening to your heart and intuition) "Don't trust your head, it is not the best part of you. " ...and my particular favourite: "Do not meddle in the beards of Wizards, for they are tangled and full of crumbs." <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

by **Scarlet** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 6:40 pm

Courage is found in unlikely places. - Gildor. (By the way, according to my dictionary a proverb is a 'short pithy saying in general use'.) As fierce as a dragon in a pinch. - from The Hobbit Oft the unbidden guest proves the best company. - Eomer Generous deed should not be checked by cold counsel. - Gandalf

by **Dad-human** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 8:50 pm

Even the very wise can not see all ends -Gandalf

by **misabella** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:42 am

While Scarlet beat me to the punch with the dictionary definition, I'd still like to quote my dictionary's version: "A short pithy saying in frequent or widespread use that expresses a basic truth or practical precept." In this light, some of my faves "Ah, the green smell! It is better than much sleep"-Legolas (what? you don't think that's practical?), "The Riders of Rohan" "...if you're short of sleep cold water on the neck's like rain on wilted lettuce"--Sam, "The Window on the West" "Ill news is an ill guest"--that definitive ill guest, Gríma Wormtongue "The King of the Golden Hall" "Yet even the most subtle spiders may leave a weak thread"--Gandalf, "The Council of Elrond" "I don't hold with wearing ironmongery, whether it wears well or no"--the irrepressible Gaffer, "The Scouring of the Shire" By the way, Luthie, interesting quote about quoiting. Did you quote it accurately? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Edit: to note that 'quoiting' is a very different proposition from 'quoting', which is what I menat to type above...

by **Luthien_elentari** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 3:54 pm

Hey there mizzie!!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Yes, I did quote it accurately, but I have no idea what a quoiting means so I can't answer for that.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Some very deep insights in this thread!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>! Tolkien was a wise, wise man.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **Unwin** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:45 am

Here's another... Newly delved (or is it dolven? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> ) ... the tree grows best in the land of its sires Hmmm... This is a nice one to put in the one-liners thread. Next opportunity... if ever. By the way, the speaker wasn't referring to the White Tree here.

by **Unwin** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:30 pm

And another... Very relevant in these times. Not that I agre with it. ... in desperate hours gentleness may be repaid with death. Denethor to Faramir

by **ShanndrahEartheart** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:36 pm

i cannot resist. 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for we are crunchy and go great with catsup.' i know it isn't lotr but I couldn't resist. by the way, is it ketchup or catsup? what is the difference? also by the way, wonderful job on finding all of these proverbs.

by **Dad-human** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 8:14 pm

I've heard that catsup and ketchup taste the same. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." Qpps wrong author.

by **Scarlet** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:36 pm

Not from LotR but a good one: Never laugh at live dragons. 'Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!' he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb. - The Hobbit.

The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien - The One Ring

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