LOTR Proverbs

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Postby Lúthien-the-Fair » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:01 pm

Speaking of The Hobbit...<BR><BR><b>Escaping Goblins to be caught by wolves</b><BR><BR>or, if you prefer...<BR><BR><b>Out of the frying-pan, into the fire.</b><BR><BR><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Unwin » Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:53 pm

Every time I think we have cleaned it out, I find a new one.<BR><BR><b>.... the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards.</b><BR><BR>Faramir to Sam
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Postby Unwin » Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:22 pm

Hmm... Even Ghan-buri-Ghan has something to say...<BR><BR><b>Dead men are not friends to living men and give them no gifts.</b>
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Postby Gamil_Zirak » Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:49 pm

"It is scarcely wise when bringing the news of the death of his heir to a mighty lord to speak over much of the one coming who will, if he comes, claim the kingship." -Gandalf ROTK, <i>Minas Tirith</i>
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Postby little_Ria » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:21 pm

<b>Not all those who wander are lost.</b><BR><BR>I once had a sticker on my school binder with this phrase...it caused much confusion. I had a teacher who asked me if it was the name of a band. This was amusing because the particular teacher had assigned us FotR as a reading assignment, and claimed he was reading it himself. (His words: "...suffering along with you..." )
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Postby Aramel » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:00 am

Dawn is ever the hope of men. --Aragorn
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Postby Anneri » Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:19 am

‘Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.’ (Gandalf)<BR><BR>‘The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out.’ (Gildor)<BR><BR>
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Postby SaradocTook » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:23 pm

I remember something about Gandalf saying something like, "Wonder makes praises ever louder," or something like that. Sorry, about not giving you the proper quote, bit all my books are packed away in boxes. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0><BR><BR>The proverb is somewhere in ROTK, about the Hobbits asking Gandalf about the surprise that lay ahead in store for them, which was Aragorn's wedding.
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Postby SaradocTook » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:24 pm

I remember something about Gandalf saying something like, "Wonder makes praises ever louder," or something like that. Sorry, about not giving you the proper quote, bit all my books are packed away in boxes. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0><BR><BR>The proverb is somewhere in ROTK, about the Hobbits asking Gandalf about the surprise that lay ahead in store for them, which was Aragorn's wedding.
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Postby Anneri » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:49 pm

'It is best to love first what you are fitted to love, [...]' (Merry in 'The Houses of Healing')
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Postby Scarlet » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:34 pm

Saradoc, I think the quote you were after is <b>Wonder makes the words of praise louder.</b><BR><BR>I've thought of another: <b>Third time pays for all</b> - Samwise asking Gollum to find herbs.
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Postby Unwin » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:59 pm

And more from Eowyn and the Warden...<BR><BR><b>It needs but one foe to breed a war.</b><BR><BR><b>The world is full enough of hurts and mischances without wars to multiply them.</b><BR><BR><BR><BR><b>Those who have not swords may still die by them.</b><BR><BR>Edited to correct spelling and attribution
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Postby Gamil_Zirak » Thu Sep 04, 2003 5:30 pm

<b>I am no weather-master...nor is aught that goes on two legs</b><BR>-Tom Bombadil<BR><BR><b>The treacherous are ever distrustful</b><BR>-Gandalf the White
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Postby Bilbo25 » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:03 pm

<b>The wise speak only of what they know</b> <BR><BR>Gandalf to Wormtongue <i>The Two Towers: King of the Golden Hall</i>
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Postby -Rómestámo- » Mon Sep 29, 2003 2:24 pm

Aragorn to Merry. "<b>Let the guide go first while you have one.</b>' ('A Journey in the Dark', <i>The Fellowship of the Ring</i>)<BR><BR>From the same chapter; Aragorn again: "[...] <b>He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel.</b>"
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Postby wilko185 » Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:22 pm

<i>"All that is gold does not glitter..." seems to be a paraphrase of Shakespeare.</i><BR><BR>Reposted from <a href='http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=52378' target=_blank>Most Known Quotation from Tolkien</a>,<OL>Tolkien inverts the gold phrase. From Shakespeare's The Merchant of Venice, Act II, Scene VII<BR><BR>All that glisters is not gold;<BR>Often have you heard that told:<BR>Many a man his life hath sold<BR>But my outside to behold:<BR>Gilded tombs do worms infold.<BR>Had you been as wise as bold,<BR>Young in limbs, in judgment old,<BR>Your answer had not been inscroll’d:<BR>Fare you well; your suit is cold.<BR><BR>As the second line implies, the saying was already old at the time, eg from Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (1389):<BR><BR><i>"But al thyng which that shyneth as the gold<BR>Nis nat gold, as that I have herd it told."</i><BR><BR>Or this:<BR><BR><i>Non teneas aurum totum quod splendet ut aurum</i> = "Do not hold as gold all that shines like gold", from Parabolae, a book of poems written circa 1175 by Alanus de Insulis, a French monk.<BR><BR>Tolkien's inverted version is original to him though, I think.</OL>
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Postby Jjudvven » Tue Sep 30, 2003 7:06 pm

I've noticed that when I was reading Canturbury Tales, and wondered if perhaps Tolkien had gotten some influence from that, but didn't feel like researching it right then.<BR><BR>It seems that all of my favorites have already been mentioned, but I'll say my very favorite:<BR><BR><b>It's the job that doens't get started as takes longest to finish. --The Gaffer</b>
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Postby Dad-human » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:30 pm

"Don't go mixing yourself up in the business of your betters or you'll land in trouble too big for you." -Hamfast
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Postby Unwin » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:15 pm

Just realized that this too is a proverb:<BR><BR><b>A loon is he that will not sing.</b>
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Postby Unwin » Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:39 pm

Well, here's a side-benefit of the Annotated LOTR. I found another proverb.<BR><BR><b>... seldom does thief ride home to the stable.</b><BR><BR>Would be good material for annotation if we can track down the source of these proverbs, if any.
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Postby Silverfoot » Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:23 pm

Hope these aren't repeats, but...<BR><BR>"It's a dangerous business, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." ~Bilbo Baggins<BR><BR>"Better have a look at the worst. No good blundering about in a fog!" ~Sam Gamgee<BR><BR>"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." ~Sam Gamgee<BR><BR>"The praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." ~Faramir<BR><BR>
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Postby MithLuin » Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:49 pm

<strong>PROVERBS FOUND IN <em>The Lord of the Rings</em></strong><BR><BR><strong>All that is gold does not glitter. Not all who wander are lost. The old that is strong does not wither. Deep roots are not reached by the frost.</strong> Aragorn's poem<BR><BR><strong>"One who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters."</strong> Aragorn to Pippin at Isengard “The Voice of Saruman”<BR><BR><strong>"He that flies counts every foeman twice."</strong> Man of Rohan, before the battle of Helm’s Deep<BR><BR><strong> 'He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.' </strong> Gandalf to Saruman, about the color white<BR><BR><strong> 'Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens,' </strong> Gimli, as the Fellowship departs Rivendell<BR><BR><strong> Let him not vow to walk in the dark, who has not seen the nightfall.'</strong> Elrond’s reply<BR><BR><strong> 'Yet sworn word may strengthen quaking heart,' … 'Or break it,' </strong> Gimli and Elrond again<BR><BR><strong> 'It's an ill wind as blows nobody no good, as I always say. And All's well as ends Better!' </strong> the Gaffer<BR><BR><strong> 'Oft hope is born, when all is forlorn.’ </strong> Legolas – preceded by the great line “Up with your beard, Durin’s son”<BR><BR><strong> "Need brooks no delay, yet late is better than never"</strong> - Eomer, THE RIDE OF THE ROHIRRIM<BR><BR><strong>'Rede oft is found at the rising of the Sun...'</strong> Legolas<BR><BR><strong>'There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark...' </strong> Aragorn<BR><BR><strong>'Often does hatred hurt itself...' </strong>Gandalf<BR><BR><strong>'But it has long been said: oft evil will shall evil mar.' </strong> Theoden<BR><BR><strong>"handsome is as handsome does" </strong> Sam, quoting a hobbit proverb to Faramir, I think?<BR><BR><strong>'Where there's life there's hope, … and need of vittles’ </strong> the Gaffer <BR><BR><strong> Don't take names to yourself . . . it is unwise, whether they are true or false"</strong> Frodo to Gollum, from <em>The Stairs of Cirith Ungol</em><BR><BR><strong> "Few can forsee whither their road will lead them till they come to its end." </strong> Legolas<BR><BR><strong> "One thief deserves another" </strong>or [...] <strong>"One ill turn deserves another."</strong> Saruman, in <em>Many Partings</em><BR><BR><strong> "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats!"</strong> Bilbo<BR><BR><strong> "Escaping goblins to be caught by wolves!"</strong> or <strong>Out of the frying-pan into the fire!</strong> Bilbo in <em>The Hobbit</em><BR><BR><strong> "Never laugh at live dragons.” </strong> Bilbo, in <em>The Hobbit</em><BR><BR><strong> Courage is found in unlikely places. </strong> - Gildor.<BR><BR><strong> ‘The wide world is all about you: you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out.’</strong> Gildor<BR><BR><strong> "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards for they are subtle and quick to anger."</strong> Gildor<BR><BR><strong> "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they [will?] say both no and yes." </strong> Frodo, to Gildor<BR><BR><strong> "Help shall oft come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter." </strong> Gandalf in the Silmarillion<BR><BR><strong> "Council is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill"</strong> Gildor <BR>or is it <strong> "Advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all courses may run ill."</strong> ?<BR><BR><strong> "There are some perils from which a man must flee."</strong> Faramir, near the end of <em>'The Window on the West</em>.<BR><BR><strong> You've caught the kitten and let the cat escape. </strong> Gorbag, from <em>The Choices of Master Samwise</em><BR><BR><strong> "The hasty stroke goes oft astray"</strong> Aragorn, THE PASSING OF THE GREY COMPANY<BR><BR><strong> "In the morning counsels are best, and night changes many thoughts" </strong> Theoden, THE MUSTER OF ROHAN <BR><BR><strong> "Where will wants not, a way opens" </strong>- Eowyn, as Dernhelm, THE MUSTER OF ROHAN<BR><BR><strong> "...A traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend"</strong> - Gandalf, THE SIEGE OF GONDOR<BR><BR><strong> "Much must be risked in war" </strong>- Denethor, THE SIEGE OF GONDOR<BR><BR><strong> "...Hope oft decieves...Yet twice blessed is help unlooked for"</strong> - Eomer, THE BATTLE OF THE PELENNOR FIELDS<BR><BR><strong> "To waver is to fall"</strong> - Aragorn, THE LAST DEBATE<BR><BR><strong> "Talking won't mend nothing"</strong> - Sam, MOUNT DOOM<BR><BR><strong> "A snake without fangs may crawl where he will"</strong> - Treebeard, MANY PARTINGS<BR><BR><strong> "It is usless to meet revenge with revenge; it will heal nothing"</strong> - Frodo, THE SCOURING OF THE SHIRE<BR><BR><strong> "It must be so if things are in danger; someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them"</strong> - Frodo, THE GREY HAVENS<BR><BR><strong>”Not all tears are an evil.”</strong> Gandalf, <em>The Grey Havens</em><BR><BR><strong> It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish. </strong> The Gaffer<BR><BR><strong> "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement." </strong> Gandalf to Frodo, <em>The Shadow of the Past</em><BR><BR><strong> The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart. </strong> Gandalf to Pippin, about the palantir<BR><BR><strong> "Make it short, then you will not have to cut it short to use it."</strong> -the Gaffer, a paraphrase? on names<BR><BR><strong> 'Where there's a whip there's a will, my slugs.’ </strong> Orc slave-driver in Mordor<BR><BR><strong> "Short cuts make long delays."</strong> Pippin (though Frodo has a comment about “inns make longer ones!”)<BR><BR><strong> "Don't trust your head, it is not the best part of you."</strong> Sam<BR><BR><strong> Oft the unbidden guest proves the best company. </strong> - Eomer<BR><BR><strong> Generous deed should not be checked by cold counsel.</strong> - Gandalf <BR><BR><strong> Even the very wise can not see all ends</strong> -Gandalf <BR><BR><strong> "Ah, the green smell! It is better than much sleep"</strong> -Legolas "The Riders of Rohan"<BR><BR><strong> "...if you're short of sleep cold water on the neck's like rain on wilted lettuce"</strong>--Sam, "The Window on the West" (seems a good place to add Gimli’s comment about seeing a line of orc-necks…)<BR><BR><strong> "Ill news is an ill guest"</strong>-- Gríma Wormtongue "The King of the Golden Hall"<BR><BR><strong> "Yet even the most subtle spiders may leave a weak thread"</strong>--Gandalf, "The Council of Elrond"<BR><BR><strong> The tree grows best in the land of its sires</strong> crypticly unattributed<BR><BR><strong> In desperate hours gentleness may be repaid with death. </strong> Denethor to Faramir <BR><BR><strong> The praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards.</strong> Faramir to Sam <BR><BR><strong> Dead men are not friends to living men and give them no gifts. </strong> Ghan-buri-ghan<BR><BR><strong> Dawn is ever the hope of men. </strong>--Aragorn , at Helm’s Deep<BR><BR><strong> ‘Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.’ </strong> Gandalf<BR><BR><strong> 'It is best to love first what you are fitted to love.’ </strong> Merry, in <em>'The Houses of Healing'</em><BR><BR><strong> Wonder makes the words of praise louder.</strong> Gandalf, before Aragorn’s wedding<BR><BR><strong> Third time pays for all.</strong> - Samwise asking Gollum to find herbs.<BR><BR><strong> It needs but one foe to breed a war.</strong> Eowyn<BR><BR><strong>The world is full enough of hurts and mischances without wars to multiply them.</strong> The Warden of the Houses of Healing<BR><BR><strong>Those who have not swords may still die by them.</strong> Eowyn<BR><BR><strong> I am no weather-master...nor is aught that goes on two legs</strong> -Tom Bombadil<BR><BR><strong>The treacherous are ever distrustful.</strong> -Gandalf the White <BR><BR><strong> The wise speak only of what they know. </strong> Gandalf to Wormtongue in <em> King of the Golden Hall </em><BR><BR><strong> "Let the guide go first while you have one.' </strong> Aragorn to Merry in <em>'A Journey in the Dark'</em><BR><BR><strong> "Don't go mixing yourself up in the business of your betters or you'll land in trouble too big for you."</strong> –the Gaffer<BR><BR><strong> A loon is he that will not sing. </strong> Pippin singing Bilbo’s Bath Song<BR> <BR><strong> seldom does thief ride home to the stable.</strong> Aragorn, I think, from <em>The King of the Golden Hall</em><BR><BR><strong> "It's a dangerous business, going out of your door. You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to."</strong> ~Bilbo Baggins<BR><BR><strong> "Fair speech may hide a foul heart."</strong> ~Sam Gamgee<BR><BR>And I would like to add:<BR><strong>"Make haste while the sun shines!</strong> Goldberry<BR><BR>**********************************************<BR>Many contributions from Gandalf and the Gaffer, as expected, but Gildor gets three, and even Gorbag and Ghan-buri-ghan had one! (Note the “G”s!)<BR><BR>If only I could make a living indexing TORC threads…<BR><BR>Below are others that were contributed, but did not sound like proverbs to me. My “judgement” is not meant to be anything other than personal taste. <BR><BR><strong> "But do not despise the lore that has come down from distant years; for oft it may chance that old wives keep in memory word of things that once were needful for the wise to know."</strong> -Celeborn<BR><BR><strong> "It is scarcely wise when bringing the news of the death of his heir to a mighty lord to speak over much of the one coming who will, if he comes, claim the kingship."</strong> -Gandalf in Minas Tirith <BR><BR> <strong> "I don't hold with wearing ironmongery, whether it wears well or no"</strong>--the irrepressible Gaffer, "The Scouring of the Shire"<BR><BR> <strong> I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. </strong>- Faramir (slightly paraphrased?)<BR><BR> <strong> "Better have a look at the worst. No good blundering about in a fog!" </strong>~Sam Gamgee<BR><BR> <strong> As fierce as a dragon in a pinch</strong>, about Bilbo in <em>The Hobbit</em><BR><BR> <strong> "He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel." </strong> Aragorn, in Moria
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Postby Unwin » Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:02 pm

Wonderful list Mithluin. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Certainly makes it convenient. In real life, do you do this for a living?<BR><BR>Here's two more that I thought we had already listed.<BR><BR><strong>Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt.</strong> <BR>(This first one applies to the other movies yesterday. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> )<BR><BR><BR><strong>Oft, in lies, truth is hidden.</strong><BR><BR>Edited for typo in first quote.
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Postby LadyAshley » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:05 pm

Ah! The Professor was a wise, wise man. Smart, and wise, both! As well as brave and kind and loving, witty, and had a good sense of humor. <BR><BR>I love all the wise LOTR proverbs. My fave is the Gaffer's "it's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish."
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Postby Silverfoot » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:43 pm

<em>LadyAshley: Smart, and wise, both! As well as brave and kind and loving, witty, and had a good sense of humor. </em><BR><BR>Don't forget 'godlike'. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby MithLuin » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:00 am

<BR><laughs>, no, I'm a science teacher for a living.<BR><BR>Oh, and I'd like to add a couple of Faramir's: <strong>Murder will out</strong>, and <strong>Night oft brings news to near kindred.</strong><BR>
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Postby Farawen » Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:05 pm

Here are a few more:<BR><BR><strong>Don't be hasty.</strong> (Treebeard) <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR><strong>Often does hatred hurt itself!</strong> (Gandalf)<BR><BR><strong>None knows what the new day shall bring him.</strong> (Aragorn)<BR><BR><strong>Faithful heart may have forward tongue.</strong> (Theoden)<BR><BR>And Gandalf answers: <strong>...to crooked eyes truth may wear a wry face.</strong><BR><BR><strong>A wild beast cornered is not safe to approach.</strong> (Gandalf)<BR><BR>
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Postby LadyAshley » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:42 pm

god-like? I wouldn't go to that extreme. Besides, the Prof might not have liked to be compared with God. (But I'm sure you're kidding, lol.)<BR><BR>I LOVE "third time pays for all". It's so true! (Especially for the year's Oscars!)
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Postby Unwin » Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:52 am

<strong>The tree grows best in the land of its sires </strong><BR><BR>Mtihluin, saw your note that this was "cryptically attributed". :0 It's Aragorn to Frodo when he sensed that Frodo wanted to go home.
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Postby Farawen » Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:06 am

Found two more (both by Gandalf):<BR><BR><strong>Peril comes in the night when least expected.</strong><BR><BR><strong>Perilous to us all are the devices of an art deeper than we possess ourselves.</strong><BR><BR>
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