Annotation Project, a new chapter: Council of Elrond

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Postby roaccarcsson » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:52 pm

I am taking ArPhy's invitation to start a new test chapter in his absence.<BR><BR>Someone suggested the Council of Elrond as a good subject, and I agree. The first thread on The King of the Golden Hall got at the learning of those of us who are primarily interested in Tolkien's sources and influences. This one should give those who like to trace the links between LotR and Tolkien's wider mythos a chance to strut their stuff.<BR><BR>If you have not been following this project, this thread will bring you up to speed:<BR><BR><a href='http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=78243' target=_blank>http://www.tolkienonline.com/thewhitecouncil/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=78243</a>
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Postby roaccarcsson » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:53 pm

The Council of Elrond (Chapter Heading)

This is the longest chapter in The Lord of the Rings. ("The Pyre of Denethor" is the shortest.) Early drafts of it can be found in HoME Vol VI pp. 399-411 and HoME Vol VII pp. 110-161.

Tom Shippey, in his book Tolkien: Author of the Century, deals with the Council at length at pp 68-82

Next day Frodo woke early, feeling refreshed and well.

The date is October 25, 3018

There was a younger dwarf at Glóin's side: his son Gimli.

Gimli was born in T.A. 2879. At the time of the Council of Elrond, this made him 139 years of age.

Within Middle-earth, Gimli may mean 'star', as "gimli = star" in Adunaic (Sauron Defeated), and that that presumably led David Salo to speculate for the movies that "gimli = star" in Khuzdul, since Khuzdul was a major influence on Adunaic.

However Tolkien discusses the meaning of 'Gimli' in Letter 297, (1967).
As stated in the Appendices the 'outer' public names of the northern Dwarves were derived from the language of men in the far north not from that variety represented by A.S. [Anglo-saxon], and in consequence are given Scandinavian shape, as rough equivalents of the kinship and divergence of the contemporary dialects. A-S will have nothing to say about Gimli. Actually the poetic word gim in archaic O.N. [Old Norse] verse is probably not related to gimm (an early loan < Latin gemma) 'gem', though possibly it was later associated with it: its meaning seems to have been 'fire'.

So Gimli is a Old Norse 'translation' of the 'actual' Outer name in the same way that the other Dwarven names are Old Norse representations of their 'actual' outer names. As a Norse name, Tolkien probably understood 'Gimli' to mean "fiery-lea" or "lea of fire".

Gimli is commonly mistakenly translated from the Norse as the 'highest heaven' after an assumption by Grimm and the appearance of 'Gimli' in the account of the aftermath of Ragnarökk:
64.More fair than the sun,----a hall I see,
Roofed with gold,--------on Gimle† it stands
;
There shall the righteous----rules dwell,
And happiness ever--------there shall they have
    Snorri [in the Prose Edda] makes Gimle into a hall's name, while here it is the name of a mountain that houses this hall.
*The Poetic Edda* http://www.northvegr.org/lore/poetic/001_01.php

The later meanings are all influenced by the Latin gemma, a gemstone or by Grimm's assumption.
Gimli : Cognate with gimr, gimsteinn, a gem, sparkling stone (Alemannic gimme; AS. gim, gymstán; Lat. gemma; Engl. gem.), and thus denoted "The Shining Abode." When Grimm assumes that Gimli is a dative form of gimill (which he takes to be the same as himill, an older form of himinn, heaven), because Gimli is used only in the dative (Deut. Myth. p. 783), he errs, as Gimli occurs twice in the nominative form (Gylf. 3 and 17).

*Northvegr*. http://www.northvegr.org/lore/northmen/014.php

In an ?1874 Old Icelandic-English dictionary, the two readings are evident:
GIM, n. [in A.S. gim is masc., and so it seems to be used in Vkv. 5 ; A.S. gim from Lat. gemma'] :—in poetry a gem, a jewel; the sun is called fagr-gim, the fair gem; gims gerðr, a lady, Lex. Pout. 2. in poets metaph. fire, Edda (GI.) : never used in prose.

G-imli, a heavenly abode, sal sá hón standa sólu fegra gulli þakðan á Gimli, Vsp. 63 [Voluspa]; it occurs only there, whence it came into Edda i 2 ; even the gender is uncertain, whether n. or perhaps better dat. of a masc. gimill = himill = himin, n. heaven.

*An Icelandic-English Dictionary, by Richard Cleasby and Gudbrand Vigfusson*. http://penguin.pearson.swarthmore.edu/~ ... b0200.html

The fact that this Old Norse word is also to be found in Adunaic is presumably just a coincidence, as the meanings are dissimilar.

There is a town called Gimli in Manitoba, Canada, on the shores of Lake Winnipeg. The area is the largest settlement of Icelandic immigrants in North Amerca, and the name is presumably taken from the Eddas.

Gimli is the only person named to be at the Council who does not speak.

with him was Galdor, an elf from the Grey Havens . . .

"Galdor" also appears in The Silmarillion as the name of the father of Hurin and Huor, son of the man Hador Glorindol.

A plausible etymology for "Galdor" is 'light-lord' or 'mighty light':

Gal- = 'light'; see 'Gil-galad.' -Dor is the lenited form of taur <TUR 'mighty, vast, high, sublime' or taur <TAR '(legitimate) king, lord.' Here ''t'' mutates to ''d'' and the diphthong ''au'' contracts to ''o'' in words with more than one syllable.

Helge Fauskanger's discussion of the name 'Gildor' is applicable here:
The uninformed have sometimes assumed that a name like Gildor means "Star-land", sc. that the final element is the same as in country-names like Gondor, Mordor etc., but "Star-land" does seem like a strange name for a person. The final element of Gildor is actually taur "king, master", blended with an identical adjective meaning "lofty, noble". In Gildor, t becomes d by lenition, and unaccented au becomes o. The name is better interpreted "Star-lord."
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm#nasal

The name 'Galdor' first appears in Tolkien's writing in the Tale The Fall of Gondolin which is published in The Book of Lost Tales 2. According to Christopher Tolkien, the name was in the original pencilled version of the narrative (see note 28 ), so can be dated to 1916-17. At this time, the name was associated with the word galdon, which meant 'tree'.

In the Tale, Galdor is the valiant lord of the House of the Tree. He survives both the fall of Gondolin and the attack on the mouth of Sirion, so in the later version of the story it would be plausible for him to join the people of Cirdan. There is, however, no reason to suspect that he is the same elf that we meet here (is there????) Galdor is not mentioned by name in any of the later narratives concerning Gondolin. Other names of lords from that Tale, such as Rog, would surely have been rejected or changed at a later date.

The name 'Galdor' also appears in 'The Lost Road' ca. 1937 as the name of a man, possibly a Numenorean, or a Lesser Man that is sympathetic to the Numenoreans. (see HoME V: The Lost Road)

In the later Legendarium, 'Galdor' became the name of the Man who is the father of Hurin and Huor. (first reference, date?)

In the Etymologies, dated 1937-38, the name 'Galdor' appears under the bases GALA-, meaning 'thrive, prosper' and GALAD- meaning 'tree'. A rejected note equates the stem GAL- with KAL-, which means 'shine'


It is presumably a concidence that galdor in Old English means "sorcery" or "enchantment." The dative singular form of the word appears in line 3052 of Beowulf: iumonna gold galdre bewunden, literally "of-ancient-men gold with-enchantment wound-about." This phrase, referring to a dragon's hoard, was used by Tolkien as the title of a poem first published in a magazine 1923, and later collected in The Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

. . . who had come on an errand from Cirdan the Shipwright.

"Cirdan" means "Shipwright." Fauskanger says: "The word cair provides an example of another peculiar property of this group of words: when they occur as the first element in compounds, ai is reduced to í-, as in the name Círdan "Shipwright". However, ai remains unchanged if such a word is the final element of a compound.'
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm#ai-plurals

There was also a strange Elf clad in green and brown, Legolas, a messenger from his father, Thranduil, the King of the Elves of Northern Mirkwood.

Thranduil and his people figure prominently in The Hobbit, though he is not named there, being referred to simply as the Elvenking. He became king on the death of his father Oropher in the war of the Last Alliance (in which Thranduil also fought). See "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" in Unfinished Tales.

Legolas's year of birth is apparently not recorded anywhere.

Concerning the etymology of "Legolas," Tolkien says in Letter 297:
Legolas is translated Greenleaf (II 106, 154) a suitable name for a Woodland Elf, though one of royal and originally Sindarin line. "Fiery locks" is entirely inappropriate: he was not a balrog! I think an investigator, not led astray by my supposed devotion to A[nglo]-S[axon], might have perceived the relation of the element -las to lassi "leaves," in Galadriel's lament; lasse-lanta "leaf-fall" = autumn, III 386; and Eryn Lasgalen III 375. "Technically" Legolas is a compound (according to rules) of S. laeg "viridis" fresh and green, and go-lass "collection of leaves, foliage."


Letters at 382.

Apparently the "Mr. Rang" to whom this letter was written (though not sent) had guessed that "Legolas" had some connection with the Old English word lieg "fire."

http://penguin.pearson.swarthmore.edu/~scrist1/scanned_books/tiff/oe_clarkhall/b0188.tiff


On a baldric he [Boromir] wore a great horn tipped with silver

baldric: A belt, usually of ornamented leather, worn across the chest to support a sword or bugle.

This horn has been carried by the eldest son of the Steward of Gondor for nearly a millenium, "since Vorondil father of Mardil hunted the wild kine of Araw in the far fields of Rhûn" (Denethor in V Ch 1). Mardil became the first ruling steward in TA 2050.

Some spoke of Moria: the mighty works of our fathers that are called in our own tongue Khazad-dum

Moria is first mentioned in Chapter I of The Hobbit, where Gandalf tells Thorin, "Your grandfather Thror was killed , you remember, in the mines of Moria by Azog the goblin." See below for a summary of the hsitory of Thror's death and the Dwarves' revenge, as it appears in Appendix A.III. The name "Azog" was added to this passage in The Hobbit after the Appendix was written.

The name Moria is Sindarin meaning ‘black pit’ or 'dark abyss.' This less-than-flattering name was given to Khazad-dum after its desertion. Its older Sindarin name was HadhodrondIt is very possible that in Hadhodrond, the Hadhod is the Sindarin phonological representation of Khazad. Rond means cave or arched roof.

The "nameless fear" to which Gloin refers is a Balrog of Morgoth, that, "flying from Thangorodrim, had laid hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West" (Appendix A -Durin's Folk). In III 1980 the Balrog was "roused from sleep" by the Dwarves- or "released from his prison ; it may well be that it had already been awakened by the malice of Sauron" (ibid.), and slew Durin VI, a descendant of Durin the Deathless and King of Durin's Folk (for this reason the Balrog was called by the Dwarves "Durin's Bane" ). Nain I, son of Durin, became King, before he too was slain in 1981. His son, Thrain I, led his people away from Khazad-Dum.

no dwarf has dared to pass the doors of Khazad-dûm for many lives of kings, save Thrór only, and he perished.

Thrór (father of Thráin and grandfather of Thorin) entered Moria and was slain by Azog the orc, father of Bolg who fought at the Battle of Five Armies in The Hobbit. This act precipitated war between dwarves and orcs, culminating in the Battle of Azanulbizar in which Dáin Ironfoot slew Azog at the eastern gates of Moria. He then looked inside Moria, and apparently saw Durin's Bane: " Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

That was nigh on thirty years ago

According to Appendix B, Balin and his followers went to Moria in 2989.

And he asked urgently concerning hobbits, of what kind they were, and where they dwelt.

In one of the writings compiled in "The Hunt for the Ring" (Part 3.IV.ii of Unfinished Tales), Tolkien said:
Gollum would not know the term "Hobbit," which was local and not a universal Westron word. He would probably not use "Halfling" since he was one himself, and Hobbits disliked the word. That is why the Black Riders seem to have two main pieces of information only to go on: Shire and Baggins.
.There is no indication in UT whether Tolkien ever realized that this was inconsistent with Gloin's account.

Then all listened while Elrond in his clear voice spoke of Sauron and the Rings of Power, and their forging in the Second Age of the world long ago. A part of his tale was known to some there, but the full tale to none, and many eyes were turned to Elrond in fear and wonder as he told of the Elven-smiths of Eregion and their friendship with Moria, and their eagerness for knowledge, by which Sauron ensnared them.

The Silmarillion gives some more information on this point:
It was in Eregion that the counsels of Sauron were most gladly received, for in that land the Noldor desired ever to increase the skill and subtlety of their works. Moreover they were not at peace in their hearts, since they had refused to return into the West, and they desired both to stay in Middle-earth, which indeed they loved, and yet to enjoy the bliss of those that had departed. Therefore they hearkened to Sauron, and they learned of him many things, for his knowledge was great. In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves, and to bring them under his vigilance.

Now the Elves made many rings; but secretly Sauron made One Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last. And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency; and Sauron forged it in the Mountain of Fire in the Land of Shadow. And while he wore the One Ring he could perceive all the things that were done by means of the lesser rings, and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore them.

But the Elves were not so lightly to be caught. As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and pereceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. Then in anger and fear they took off their rings.

Letter 131 gives yet more background and the author's thoughts:
In the first we see a sort of second fall or at least “error” of the Elves…

There arose a friendship between the usually hostile folk (of Elves and Dwarves) for the first and only time, and smithcraft reached its highest development. But many of the Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands.

But in Eregion great work began – and the Elves came their nearest to falling to ‘magic’ and machinery. With the aid of Sauron’s lore they made Rings of Power (‘power’ is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods).

The Elves of Eregion made Three superemely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that user the lesser rings, could govern all they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them.


Then through all the years that followed he traced the Ring; but since that history is elsewhere recounted, even as Elrond himself set it down in his books of lore it is not here recounted.... Of Numenor he spoke, its glory and fall

For fuller accounts see The Silmarillion, 1st Unwin Paperback Edition pp. 311-339 (The Akallabeth) and 343-367 (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age).

The reference to the tale being in other lore books continues the fiction that this is a translation of the Red Book of Westmarch. Compare ROTK (Collins Paperback Ed) p.1004, which gives the title page of that book.

they made the Last Alliance of Elves and Men

3430 SA. Presumably, the name 'Last Alliance' was given to this League when its place in history became clear. After the defeat of Sauron, there was no longer a High King of Elves or Men to form such a grand alliance. "Last" is obviously not meant to be taken literally; it was an alliance between Elves of Lindon under Círdan and an army from Gondor led by Eärnur, the heir to the throne, that overthrew the realm of Angmar in TA 1975. (And see the Battle of Five Armies in The Hobbit.


the hosts of Gil-galad and Elendil were mustered in Arnor

Aragorn tells us that Elendil waited at Weathertop for Gil-galad and his army (See p. 181 of 'A Knife in the Dark'). This combined host halted for about three years in Rivendell (see 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age' in The Silmarillion as well as Appendix B p. 1059). Isildur (Elendil's eldest son) and his wife and his sons were with Elendil, while Anarion (Isildur's younger brother) held Gondor in the South against Sauron's armies. Isildur's youngest son Valandil was born during this time as well.

the hosts of Beleriand

Beleriand was a land west of Eriador. It was destroyed during cataclysms and is underwater at this time. The elven kingdoms of the First Age in Beleriand were Doriath, Gondolin and Nargothrond. 'Of Beleriand and its Realms' in The Silmarillion describes the location and leaders of all the elvish realms in Beleriand.

when Thangorodrim was broken

The War of Wrath. The hosts of the Valar, and of the Vanyar and of the Noldor, as well as Men of the Three Houses of the Edain and Elves in Middle Earth all fought the entire host of Morgoth, which included countless orcs, Balrogs and dragons. Some 'princes' who were present included Eonwe, Herald of Manwe, Ingwe, High King of all Elves and Lord of the Vanyar, Finarfin lord of the Noldor, Maglor and Maedhros, sons of Feanor, and Earendil the Mariner. Thangorodrim broke when the dragon Ancalagon the Black was cast down from the sky onto it. The Host of the Valar were victorious, and Morgoth was taken captive.

Etymology of 'Thangorodrim': The meaning 'Mountains of Tyranny' is given in the Silmarillion. orod is Sindarin for mountain. Rim means 'host', or can be used as a suffix to form a collective plural. The usual plural of orod would be eryd. In the Etymologies, thang is defined as 'compulsion, duress, oppression' (see HoME V: The Lost Road). So, 'mountains of duress' would be another possible interpretation.

Because the consonants "d" and "r" occur together between the next-to-last and last syllables, the stress is on the next-to-last ("penult"); ThangoRODrim. See Appendix E.

the elves deemed that evil was ended for ever, and it was not so

Morgoth was made captive, and Sauron surrendered, though he later repented of this decision, and was not brought to judgement. Some dragons and at least one Balrog also escaped the ruin and hid.

the fall of Gil-galad was a long age ago

Gil-galad fell in the last year of the Second Age (3441), so 3019 years ago.

my memory reaches back even to the Elder Days

Elrond was born at the mouths of Sirion, before Earendil's Voyage. His brother Elros was born 59 years before the end of the First Age. They were children when the Elves of Sirion were attacked. After that time, they were raised by Maglor, son of Feanor. If they were twins, Elrond would be 6,518 years old. Elves do not grow old the way Men do, so there is little to Elrond's appearance to suggest his age. When Frodo first sees him, he notes 'the face of Elrond was ageless, neither old nor young' ('Many Meetings' p. 220). It is likely that some of the elves of Elrond's household are even older than he is. See note on p. 205 of 'Flight to the Ford'

Earendil was my sire, who was born in Gondolin before its fall

Also called "the Hidden City," Gondolin was built by Turgon ('Stone-lord'???), the second son of Fingolfin, a prince of the Noldor, in the Encircling Mountains ('Echoriath'). The men Huor, Hurin and Tuor, and the elves Eol and Maeglin, were the only outsiders to enter Turgon’s realm while it endured. Earendil was the son of Tuor and Idril Celebrindal ('Silver-foot'), Turgon’s only child. Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, discovered the location of Gondolin by treachery, and sacked the city. Turgon and many of the people perished, though Idril, Tuor and their young son Earendil escaped. The story of the founding of Gondolin is told at the beginning of Chapter 15: 'Of the Noldor in Beleriand' in The Silmarillion. The story of the Fall of Gondolin is told in Chapter 23 of The Silmarillion; a more detailed version from 1920 is published in HoME II: The Book of Lost Tales 2.

For Earendil's subsequent history, see the annotations to the previous chapter.
Bilbo's sword Sting and Gandalf's sword Glamdring come from Gondolin.

I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host"

JRRT did not use 'herald' according to its modern meaning of a non-combatant messenger. Instead, his usage reflects its early etymology, before that meaning was 'hijacked' by the Anglo-Norman meaning found in the modern dictionary.

herald
Main Entry: 1her·ald
Pronunciation: 'her-&ld
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French hiraut, from an (assumed) Germanic compound whose first component is akin to Old High German heri army, and whose second is akin to Old High German waltan to rule -- more at HARRY, WIELD.
Date: 14th century
1 a : an official at a tournament of arms with duties including the making of announcements and the marshaling of combatants b : an officer with the status of ambassador acting as official messenger between leaders especially in war c (1) : OFFICER OF ARMS (2) : an officer of arms ranking above a pursuivant and below a king of arms
2 : an official crier or messenger
3 a : one that precedes or foreshadows b : one that conveys news or proclaims : ANNOUNCER <it was the lark, the herald of the morn -- Shakespeare> c : one who actively promotes or advocates : EXPONENT
synonym see FORERUNNER.
The only meaning of the modern ones given that JRRT would ascribe to his Heralds is definition 1b (1c refers purely to the ranks of a College of Heraldry). The principle role of Tolkien's Heralds is that of War-leader, more clearly seen through the etymology of 'harry' and 'wield'.
Harry
Main Entry: har·ry
Pronunciation: 'har-E
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): har·ried; har·ry·ing
Etymology: Middle English harien, from Old English hergian; akin to Old High German heriOn to lay waste, heri army, Greek koiranos ruler
Date: before 12th century
-------------------------
wield
Wield\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Wielded; p. pr. & vb. n. Wielding.] [OE. welden to govern, to have power over, to possess, AS. geweldan, gewyldan, from wealdan; akin to OS. waldan, OFries. walda, G. walten, OHG. waltan, Icel. valda, Sw. v[*a]lla to occasion, to cause, Dan. volde, Goth. waldan to govern, rule, L. valere to be strong. Cf. Herald, Valiant.] 1. To govern; to rule; to keep, or have in charge; also, to possess. [Obs.]<BR> -------------------------<BR>HERALD (0. Fr. heraut, herault; the origin is uncertain, but O.H.G. heren, to call, or hariwald, leader of an army, have been proposed.

So it appears that to JRRT, 'Herald' was a modernised form of the Anglo-saxon forms that corresponded to the (Old High German) heri <<army>>, and (Old High German) waltan <<to rule>> ) and thus meant "Army Commander".

This meaning is supported by JRRT's usage of the word, where both Eonwë in The Silmarillion and Elrond (both 'Heralds' ) act as War-Leaders and representatives (Vicegerents and plenipotentiaries) of Manwë and Gil-galad respectively, as well as perhaps the more modern role of 'Heralds' as messengers. Elrond leads Gil-galad's armies in the relief of Eregion and foundation of Imladris and would act as Gil-galad's general and lieutenant in battle.

the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos [so spelled in my copy] and Narsil, none could withstand.

Aeglos, "snowthorn", is said to have been like furze (gorse), but larger, and with white flowers. Aeglos was also the name of the spear of Gil-galad. Unfinished Tales Chapter 2, footnote 14).

Narsil was forged by the great dwarven smith Telchar of Nogrod in the First Age.
Narsil is a name composed of 2 basic stems without variation or adjuncts: [root]NAR 'fire', & [root]THIL 'white light'. It thus symbolised the chief heavenly lights, as enemies of darkness, Sun (Anar) and Moon (in Q[uenya]) Isil.
(Letter #347).

Earendil was my sire, who was born in Gondolin before its fall; and my mother was Elwing, daughter of Dior, son of Luthien of Doriath.

The story of Earendil and his mission to seek help from the Valar is discussed in the previous chapter. Earendil was a Man, and Elwing was a High-elf; Elrond and his brother Elros were the Peredhel or Half-elven.

"At the end of the First Age the Valar gave to the Half-elven an irrevocable choice to which kindred they would belong." Appendix A, part I(iii), "Numenor." Elrond chose to be of Elf-kind, while Elros chose mortality. He became the first King of Numenor, and the direct ancestor of the Kings of Gondor and Arnor.

This I will have as weregild for my father, and my brother

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=weregild

[AS. wergild; wer a man, value set on a man's life + gild payment of money; akin to G. wehrgeld. ... (O. Eng. Law) The price of a man's head; a compensation paid of a man killed, partly to the king for the loss of a subject, partly to the lord of a vassal, and partly to the next of kin. It was paid by the murderer.

The payment of weregilds was very important in the old north-European "pagan" system of justice. They are often demanded in sagas as recompense for a death.

three men only came ever back over the mountains after long wandering. One of them was Ohtar, the esquire of Isildur

According to Tolkien's later account of the Gladden Fields, published in Unfinished Tales, the other two were one of Ohtar's companions, and Estelmo, the esquire of Elendur, Isildur's eldest son (see below). The original Elendilmir (a silver circlet with a single white gem that served as the crown in the North) was lost with Isildur and later found by Saruman.

Valandil, the heir of Isildur, who being but a child had remained here in Rivendell

Isildur had four sons: Elendur, Aratan, Ciryon and Valandil. Elendur was born in SA 3299 in Numenor. Aratan was born in 3339; Ciryon was born in 3379, both in Middle Earth [see HoME 12]. Valandil was born in SA 3430 in Rivendell just prior to the Last Alliance [see note in App A (ii) "The Realms in Exile"]. The three older sons survived the Last Alliance and were all slain with their father at the Gladden Fields in TA 2. During these battles, Valandil remained in Rivendell with his mother [see "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in The Silmarillion. He died in TA 249. In later years, after the fall of the North Kingdom, it became a tradition for the heir of Isildur to reside in Rivendell, particularly in childhood. This tradition began with Arahael, son of Aranarth, son of Arvedui Last-King. See App. A (iii) "The North Kingdom and the Dunedain."

b]their city of Annúminas beside Lake Evendim fell into ruin[/b]

"Lake Evendim" is a translation of Sindarin "Nenuial": nen "water" + uial "twilight." According to Appendix IV, uial referred to both morning and evening twilight; aduial would be the precise equivalent of "evendim."

Neither Appendix A nor Appendix B appears to specify when Annúminas was abandoned. Tolkien seems to have envisioned that both Annuminas and Fornost Erain would be rebuilt by King Elessar. See Bk. VI, ch.7 at 247.

For the folk of Arnor dwindled, and their foes devoured them, and their lordship passed, leaving only green mounds in the grassy hills.

The "green mounds" here are presumably the Barrow-Downs.

Give me leave, Master Elrond," said he, "first to say more of Gondor; for verily from the land of Gondor I am come."

At its first appearance, Gondor is called "the land of Ond." HoME v. VI, p. 398. Although its location and its role as the adversary of Sauron is present from the beginning, Tolkien did not immediately conceive of it as having been established by refugees from Númenor. That conception did not take long to arrive, being present from the outset of HoME v. VII. Boromir's father is initially identified as "the K[ing] of Ond." HoME v. VI at p. 411.

The name "Ond" became "Ondor" and remained so for some time; the change to "Gondor" is recorded on a sheet of paper dated precisely to Feb. 9, 1942. HoME v. VII at p. 392. All of these names mean "Land of Stone." Tolkien explained how the name was chosen in Letter 324:

I can actually recollect the reason why the element *gon(o), *gond(o) was selected for the stem of words meaning stone, when I began inventing the "Elvish" languages. When about 8 years old I read in a small book (professedly for the young) that nothing of the language of primitive peoples (before the Celts or Germanic invaders) is now known, except perhaps ond = "stone" (+ one other now forgotten). I have no idea how such a form could be guessed, but the ond seemed to me fitting for the meaning. (The prefixing of g- was much later, after the invention of the relation between Sindarin & Quenya in which primitive initial g- was lost in Q: the Q. form of the word remained ondo.)


a hundred and ten days I have journeyed all alone

Boromir set out from Minas Tirith on July 4, 3018.

we spoke to our father, Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith, wise in the lore of Gondor

Denethor's full title, of course, is Steward of the King. His name, like several born by Gondarians is taken from the legendary histories of the First Age (i.e., the Silmarillion). Denethor was the name of the King of the Nandorian elves of Ossiriand, who was slain in the First Battle of Beleriand (Silmarillion 88-90). Tolkien translated the name as "lithe and lank" (WJ:412)

"Denethor" is pronounced with the emphasis on the first syllable (the third from the end, or "antepenult"): DENethor. See Appendix E. The "th" is a single consonant written with two letters ("digraph").

Minas Tirith ("Tower of the Guard" is also an ancient name reapplied. In the First Age it was given to the watch tower of Finrod Felagund in the river Sirion, which was after taken by Sauron and used as a fortress of werewolves (Sil. 114, 152).

The name Boromir is borrowed from an obscure ancestor of Beren (Sil. 144)
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Postby roaccarcsson » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:53 pm

I was in the company that held the bridge, until it was cast down behind us.

When Tolkien was young, every schoolboy knew the poem "Horatius at the Bridge," from the Lays of Ancient Rome by the nineteenth-century historian and politician Thomas Babington Macaulay. The poem tells in verse a story from the Roman historian Livy, about a hero from the early days of Rome, who with two others held a bridge against an Etruscan army while the outnumbered Romans destroyed it behind them. It begins "Lars Porsena of Clusium/By the nine gods he swore/that the great house of Tarquin/Should suffer wrong no more," and ends, "with weeping and with laughter/Still is the story told/Of how Horatius held the bridge/In the brave days of old." It used to be said that everyone knew one thing about the Etruscans: they had nine gods, by whom they swore.

The complete text, with notes and the passage from Livy, is here:

http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1359.html

"The Halfling!" he muttered.`

In a note published in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien said that the Hobbits
did not of course call themselves Halflings; this was the Númenórean name for them. It evidently referred to their height in comparison with Númenórean men, and was approximately accurate when given. It was applied first to the Harfoots, who became known to the rulers of Arnor in the eleventh century [cf. the entry for 1050 in the Tale of Years], and then later also to Fallohides and Stoors. The Kingdoms of the North and the South remained in close communication at that time, and indeed until much later, and each was well informed of events in the other region, especially of the migration of people of all kinds. Thus . . . the existence of this people within the kingdom of Arthedain was known in Gondor, and they were given the name Halfling . . . As soon as Frodo was brought to Boromir's notice [at the Council of Elrond] he recognized him as a member of this race. He had probably until then regarded them as creatures of what we would call fairy-tales or folk-lore.


UT, pp. 299-300 (1st U.S. paperback); editorial interpolations in brackets are Christopher Tolkien's.


I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhûn and Harad where the stars are strange.
Rhûn and Harad simply mean East and South respectively, and do not refer to specific realms in those regions. The "strange stars" apply strictly only to the Harad, and must mean that Aragorn travelled or voyaged some distance into the southern hemisphere.


Footnote 10 to Part IV, Ch. 2 of UT; Christopher Tolkien indicates that this is JRRT's note.

But I will now tell the true story, and if some here have heard me tell it otherwise' – he looked sidelong at Glóin – 'I ask them to forget it and forgive me.

The false story Bilbo is referring to is the one Tolkien published in the first edition of The Hobbit, in which Gollum actually offered the Ring to Bilbo. When Tolkien came to write LOTR and the magic Ring acquired much more significance and power, he realised that Gollum's behaviour was implausible, and revised The Hobbit accordingly. In the pseudo-hstory of the book, the earlier version then cleverly becomes Bilbo's first version of the story in which he is trying to establish his claim on the Ring. See Letters 128-130 for an account of how the revised version came to be published, more or less by accident, in 1950.
This account Bilbo set down in his memoirs, and he seems never to have altered it himself, not even after the Council of Elrond. Evidently it still appeared in the original Red Book, as it did in several of the copies and abstracts. But many copies contain the true account (as an alternative), derived no doubt from notes by Frodo or Samwise, both of whom learned the truth, though they seem to have been unwilling to delete anything actually written by the old hobbit himself.
LOTR Prologue, part 4, "On the Finding of the Ring."

I only wished to claim the treasure as my very own in those days, and to be rid of the name of thief that was put on me.

Put on him by Gollum: "Thief, thief, thief! Baggins! We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!"

The Nine the Nazgul keep.

It appers that Tolkien changed his mind after this passage was written. In Letter 246, drafted in 1963, he says of the Nazgul that
they would have obeyed or feigned to obey any minor commands of [Frodo's] which did not interfere with their errand - laid upon them by Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills.
Letters, p. 331 (US Ed. 1981.)

Some here will remember that many years ago I myself dared to pass the doors of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur

Gandalf went to Dol Guldur in 2850, and obtained the map and key of Erebor from Thráin father of Thorin, who was imprisoned there. See The Hobbit, ch. 1.

Originally, a "necromancer" (from Greek nekros "corpse" and manteia "divination") was one who supposedly communicated with the spirits of the dead in order to foretell the future. Belief in the practice was widespread in the ancient world; for details see this link:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10735a.htm

Tolkien no doubt used the name in The Hobbit simply because of the sinister connotations of the word (partly due to confusion of the first element with Late Latin nigro "black)." The author says in Letter X that when The Hobbit was written, the Necromancer was merely a device to provide a reason for separating Gandalf from Thorin and his companions.

Ultimately, however, Tolkien concluded that "necromancy" in the technical sense was in fact practiced in Middle-earth:

The fëa ['spirit'] is single, and in the last impregnable. It cannot be brought to Mandos. It is summoned; and the summons proceeds from just authority, and is imperative; yet it may be refused. Among those who refused the summons (or rather invitation) of the Valar to Aman in the first years of the Elves, refusal of the summons to Mandos and the Halls of Waiting is, the Eldar say, frequent. It was less frequent, however, in ancient days, while Morgoth was in Arda, or his servant Sauron after him; for then the fëa unbodied would flee in terror of the Shadow to any refuge - unless it were already committed to the Darkness and passed then into its dominion. In like manner even of the Eldar some who had become corrupted refused the summons, and then had little power to resist the counter-summons of Morgoth.
[...]
For the Unbodied ['Houseless fëar] , wandering in the world, are those who at the least have refused the door of life and remain in regret and self-pity. Some are filled with bitterness, grievance, and envy. Some were enslaved by the Dark Lord and do his work still, though he himself is gone.They will not speak truth or wisdom. To call on them is folly. To attempt to master them and to make them servants of one own's will is wickedness. Such practices are of Morgoth; and the necromancers are of the host of Sauron his servant.


'Laws and Customs of the Eldar', Text B, Morgoth's Ring.

"Dol Guldur" means "Hill of Sorcery" in Sindarin. Its original name was "Amon Lanc." In a note to the account of Isildur's death, published in Unfinished Tales as "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields," Tolkien wrote:
Amon Lanc, "Naked Hill," was the highest point in the highland at the south-west corner of the Greenwood [Mirkwood], and was so called because no trees grew on its summit. In later days it was Dol Guldur, the first stronghold of Sauron after his awakening.


UT, p. 292 n. 12 (1st US paperback).

But Saruman said nay and repeated what he had said to us before: that the One would never again be found in Middle-earth.

After the publication of LotR, Tolkien wrote a fuller account of the prior dealings of Gandalf and Saruman concerning the Ring. This was published in Unfinished Tales, Part Three, sec. IV.iii, "Concerning Gandalf, Saruman, and the Shire."

It is precious to me, though I buy it with great pain.

Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, and Bombadil have all used the word "precious" to refer to the Ring. Repetition of the word is an effective unifying device.

"...but even as I went northwards, messages came to me out of Lorien that Aragorn had passed that way, and that he had found the creature called Gollum."

Aragorn captured Gollum at nightfall on 1st February and delivered him to Thranduil's Elves fifty days later on 21st March. Gandalf arrived to question Gollum two days later.

Details of the route Aragorn took Gollum by is given in UT: The Hunt for the Ring.

Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

The "Ardalambion" website, maintained by the linguist Helge Fauskanger, tentatively analyses this verse as follows:

Ash = one
nazg = ring (see Nazgul=ring-wraith)
durb = rule
-at = infinitive ending
-ul = them
-ûk = completeness of action
gimbat = to find
-ul = them
thrakat = to bring
-ul = them
-ûk = fully
agh = and
burzum = darkness (see Lugburz = Dark Tower)
-ishi = in (the hypen does not appear in the Tengwar inscription)
krimpat = to bind-ul = them

It is also possible that at is not the infinitive, but an "intended future" conjugation.


This is all taken from here:http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/orkish.htm

we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.

According to Appendix B, Sauron sent three of the Nazgul to reoccupy Dol Guldur in 2951 (only ten years after he was driven out of it by the White Council).

It was Radagast the Brown, who at one time dwelt in Rhosgobel, near the borders of Mirkwood.

Radagast is mentioned in The Hobbit, in the chapter "Queer Lodgings," when Gandalf introduces himself to Beorn: "I am a wizard," continued Gandalf. "I have heard of you, if you have not heard of me, but perhaps you have heard of my good cousin Radagast who lives near the southern borders of Mirkwood?"

In an account of the Istari or Wizards, dated by Christopher Tolkien to 1954 and published in Unfinished Tales, Tolkien wrote that "Radagast, the fourth [of the Istari], became enamoured of the many birds and beasts that dwelt in Middle-Earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures."

Other, fragmentary writings state that Radagast's name "in the West that is forgotten" was Aiwendil, and that he was chosen for the mission to Middle-Earth by the Vala Yavanna. See generally UT. Part Four, ch. II, "The Istari."

Accounts of pre-Christian Slavic mythology refer to a god named Radegast or Radigost, after whom a Czech brand of beer is named. David Salo, the noted scholar of Tolkien's languages, believes that the similarity of names is probably a concidence:

http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/misc/local/TolkLang/messages/Vol19/19.11

"Rhosgobel" means "Brown Enclosure." Christopher Tolkien writes:
For the etymology of Rhosgobel see [HoME vol.] V.385, Noldorin rhosc "brown" (stem RUSKÁ), and V.380, Noldorin gobel "fenced homestead," as in Tavrobel (stem PEL(ES)).

HoME vol. VII, p 173-74 n.10. In the margin of the manuscript, Tolkien translated the name "Brownhay," where "hay" is an old form of "hedge," as in the High Hay between Buckland and the Old Forest. Id.

'Isengard is a circle of sheer rocks that enclose a valley as with a wall, and in the midst of that valley is a tower of stone called Orthanc.'

"Isen is an old variant form in English of iron; gard a Germanic word meaning 'enclosure', especially one round a dwelling or group of buildings" (Tolkien's 'Guide to the Names in The Lord of the Rings').

"This was Orthanc, the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had (by design or chance) a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech orthanc signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old the Cunning Mind." (Book III, Ch 8 ). This double-meaning seems strange, as Old English is only being used to represent the "real" Rohirric tongue for the benefit of the reader, and the name is presumably something different in Rohirric.

The complete definition of orþanc in the Clark Hall Old English Dictionary reads: "Intelligence, understanding, mind; cleverness, skill, skilful work, mechanical art." Thus the names "Saruman" and "Orthanc" resonate together.

http://penguin.pearson.swarthmore.edu/~scrist1/scanned_books/tiff/oe_clarkhall/b0232.tiff

It was not made by Saruman, but by Men of Númenor long ago

In the initial draft, Orthanc was said to have been made by Saruman. HoME v. VII, p. 150. It could be argued that the association between the names "Saruman" and "Orthanc" (see the previous note) loses force as a result of the change.

Late one evening I came to the gate

The date is July 10, according to Appendix B.

As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose.

It is hard for readers to avoid seeing parallels between this and the view that democrats of Tolkien’s era took towards intellectual collaborators with the Nazi or Soviet regimes. Here for example is what the historian Robert Conquest (‘The Great Terror’ p. 125) has to say about the Soviet oppositionists who submitted to Stalin in the 1930s: “their admissions that Stalin was after all right, were based on the idea that it was correct to . . . suffer any humiliation, to remain in . . . the Party. In this way, they thought, when Stalin’s policies came to grief, they themselves would be there, available as the alternative leadership which the Party must then seek”.

Yet Tolkien always insisted that it was wrong to draw any direct parallels. Although, even in 1943 when Stalin was a wartime ally, he regarded him as “a bloodthirsty old murderer” (Letters: 53), his reaction was forceful when his Swedish translator wrote that “Here in Mordor rules the personification of Satanic might Sauron (read perhaps . . . Stalin)”. Tolkien’s response was “I utterly repudiate any such ‘reading’, which angers me. ... Such allegory is entirely foreign to my thought” (Letters: 229).

Wolves and orcs were housed in Isengard

In connection with the revisions for the Second Edition, Tolkien wrote:
The Council seems to have been unaware, since for many years Isengard had been closely guarded, of what went on within its Ring. The use, and possibly special breeding, of Orcs was kept secret and cannot have begun much before 2990 at earliest.

"The Palantiri," Unfinished Tales at pp. 430-31 n.7 (1st US paperback).

It came some time ago, after I left the Shire, I think.

Frodo’s dream of Gandalf occurred on Sept. 26, 3018, the first night in the House of Tom Bombadil. At the time, Frodo mistook the hoofbeats in his dream for Black Riders.

Then it was late in coming

Gandalf escaped from Orthanc on Sept. 18, 3018. By Sept. 26th, Gandalf (on Shadowfax) had nearly reached the Greyflood.

Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orthanc; and he found me standing on a pinnacle. Then I spoke to him, and he bore me away

In the first draft the eagle who rescued Gandalf was called Gwaewar. [HoME v. VII, p. 134.

The evidence seems to suggest that Gwaihir is not the "Lord of the Eagles" who, with his people, rescued Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves from the Wargs and Orcs in Chapter VI of The Hobbit. For one thing, Gandalf says to him in Bk. VI, ch. 4, "Twice have you borne me, Gwaihir my friend" (referring to the rescues from Orthanc and from the peak of Celebdil). Since The Hobbit specifies that it was the Lord of the Eagles himself who seized Gandalf from the burning tree, the clear implication is that that was a different bird. For another, Gwaewar was described in the draft as "chief of the eagles" (loc. cit.; presumably Tolkien changed this to "swiftest of the Great Eagles" because he had decided that Gwaewar/Gwaihir was not in fact the lord or chief.

In the Kalevala, fhe Finnish folk epic which Tolkien knew well, an eagle rescues the hero Vainamoinen from the ocean:

Thus the bird of Ether answered
"Be not in the least disheartened,
Place thyself between my shoulders,
On my back be firmly seated,
I will lift thee from the waters,
Bear thee with my pinions upward,
Bear thee wheresoe'er thou willest.
Well do I the day remember
Where thou didst the eagle service,
When thou didst the birds a favor.
Thou didst leave the birch-tree standing,
When were cleared the Osmo-forests,
From the lands of Kalevala,
As a home for weary song-birds,
As a resting-place for eagles."


Translation by John Martin Crawford. On-line here:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/kvrune07.htm

Here is an illustration of one of the Great Eagles drawn by Tolkien to illustrate The Hobbit..

http://www.jrrt-obrazky.wz.cz/Birdlord.jpg

This is clearly a Golden Eagle (Aquila chrysaetos)

http://www.birdguides.com/html/vidlib/species/Aquila_chrysaetos.htm

Douglas Anderson, in The Annotated Hobbit, identifies what appears to be the illustration from which Tolkien copied the bird.

I know the Men of Rohan, true and valiant, our allies, dwelling still in the lands that we gave them long ago.

The Steward Cirion gave the Men of Rohan the former province of Calenardhon in T.A. 2510, as a reward for their intervention in the Battle of the Field of Celebrant, which saved the northern army of Gondor from defeat at the hands of Orcs and Easterlings. See Appendix A.II, and the expanded account written late in Tolkien's life and published in Unfinished Tales as "Cirion and Eorl and the Friendship of Gondor and Rohan."

I came to Hobbiton

September 29, 3018 TA. Frodo met Strider in Bree that evening.

towards Bree...I went

Gandalf arrived in Bree in the evening of Sept. 30th. Frodo had departed that morning.

I was beseiged on the hill-top

The evening of October 3rd. Frodo saw the lights from far away. See p. 178-9 of 'A Knife in the Dark'


May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!

Unlike his final speech to Saruman, these words of Gandalf's were not empty. See Bk. VI, ch. 6.

Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, Oldest and Fatherless

Helge Fauskanger says this concerning the name Iarwain:
It so happens that we may also have the superlative form of iaur "old"; during the Council of Elrond, the Sindarin name of Tom Bombadil was given as Iarwain, meaning "Eldest". The ending -wain would seem to be the superlative suffix. Why not *Iorwain, with the normal monophthongization au > o? (David Salo answers, "Because you are looking at the direct descendant of a form like *Yarwanya (perhaps, I am not sure of the exact form of the final element) in which the vowel was in a closed syllable." I don't feel much wiser, but then I am not so deep into Eldarin phonology as David is.)
http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/sindarin.htm#Heading16

But many another name he has been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men, and other names besides.

Both these names mean "very old." Forn is Old Norse; Orald is a modernization of Old English oreald, cognate with German uralt.

I was very comfortable here, and getting on with my book. If you want to know, I am just writing an ending for it. I had thought of putting: and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true; and anyway there will evidently have to be several more chapters, if I live to write them.

This is in fact a close paraphrase of a sentence from the end of The Hobbit, one which Tolkien had trouble reconciling with Bilbo being involved in a sequel.
the original Hobbit was never intended to have a sequel – Bilbo 'remained very happy to the end of his days and those were extraordinarily long': a sentence I find an almost insuperable obstacle to a satisfactory link.


Letter 31, July 1938.

Though the word was meant

The word that was meant is presumably "hero."

Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him.

As Elrond shortly says, he has already concluded that Frodo is the chosen Ringbearer. Yet he scrupulously refrains from influencing Frodo's decision, even by glance. Respect for the free will of others is the common thread running through the actions of the "good" characters in The Lord of the Rings.

'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.'

Tolkien himself gives this as an example of "Grace" in Letter 246: 'Frodo was given 'grace': first to answer the call (at the end of the Council) after long resisting a complete surrender...' Letters, p.246, footnote (1st US Ed., 1981).

though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador, and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.

All of these elf-friends lived during the First Age. Their stories are told in The Silmarillion.

Hador - Hador, called the Goldenhaired, was the founder of the Third of the three houses of the Edain, men who were friendly with the Noldor. He pledged his services to Fingolfin. He was the Lord of Dor-lomin, and the grandfather of Hurin and Huor.

Hurin - older brother of Huor, husband of Morwen and father of Turin, Lalaith and Nienor. He and Huor visited Gondolin and were friends of King Turgon. During the Nirnaeth Anoriead, Huor and Hurin formed a rearguard, allowing Turgon to escape back to Gondolin. Huor was killed by an arrow in his eye, but Hurin was taken alive after slaying over 70 orcs.

For the story of Beren, see the annotations to "A Knife in the Dark."

Sam sat down, blushing and muttering. `A nice pickle we have landed ourselves in, Mr. Frodo!' he said, shaking his head.

This line has been inadvertently omitted from the large format hardcover three volume edition (illustrated by Alan Lee) published by Houghton Mifflin Co. in 2002.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/061826051X/ref%3Dnosim/mikestolkienreso/103-3738555-6071834
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Postby roaccarcsson » Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:54 pm

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Postby Silverfoot » Mon Mar 01, 2004 6:00 pm

Before anyone else says what little I can contribute to this chapter... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Glóin mentions King Brand of Dale. Brand is the grandson of Bard the bowman, who killed Smaug the dragon in the year 2941 of the Third Age, during Bilbo's own adventure. Glóin also mentions Dáin Ironfoot, the king of the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain. Dáin succeeded the very short reign of Thorin Oakenshield, who was slain in the Battle of Five Armies after leading twelve Dwarves (including Glóin) and Bilbo to reclaim the Lonely Mountain, and all its wealth, from Smaug.<BR><BR>(Thought this info would be helpful to those who haven't read the Hobbit... they do actually exist, unbelievable though it seems! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>)
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Postby Nár » Tue Mar 02, 2004 3:59 am

<strong> Gloin sighed. "Moria! Moria! Wonder of the Northern world! Too deep we delved there, and woke the nameless fear"</strong><BR><BR>The "nameless fear" to which Gloin refers is a Balrog of Morgoth, that, "flying from Thangorodrim, had laid hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West" (Appendix A -Durin's Folk). In III 1980 the Balrog was "roused from sleep" by the Dwarves- or "released from his prison ; it may well be that it had already been awakened by the malice of Sauron" (ibid.), and slew Durin VI, a descendant of Durin the Deathless and King of Durin's Folk (for this reason the Balrog was called by the Dwarves "Durin's Bane" ). Nain I, son of Durin, became King, before he too was slain in 1981. His son, Thrain I, led his people away from Khazad-dum.<BR><BR>( I think that the other notes concerning the Balrog, and the fact that nobody knew what Durin's Bane exactly was, should be in "The bridge of Khazad-dum". )
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Postby -Rómestámo- » Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:56 am

<em>'I was the herald of Gil-galad and marched with his host</em> [...]'<BR><BR>JRRT did not use 'herald' according to its modern meaning of a non-combatant messenger. Instead, his usage reflects its early etymology, before that meaning was 'hijacked' by the Anglo-Norman meaning found in the modern dictionary.<UL><strong><a href='http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=herald' target=_blank>herald</a></strong> [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=herald]<BR><u>Main Entry</u>: 1<strong>her·ald</strong> <BR><u>Pronunciation</u>: 'her-&ld<BR><u>Function</u>: <em>noun</em><BR><u>Etymology</u>: Middle English, from Middle French <em>hiraut</em>, from an (assumed) Germanic compound whose first component is akin to Old High German <em>heri</em> army, and whose second is akin to Old High German <em>waltan</em> to rule -- more at HARRY, WIELD.<BR>Date: 14th century<BR><strong>1 a</strong> : an official at a tournament of arms with duties including the making of announcements and the marshaling of combatants <strong>b</strong> : an officer with the status of ambassador acting as official messenger between leaders especially in war <strong>c</strong> (1) : OFFICER OF ARMS (2) : an officer of arms ranking above a pursuivant and below a king of arms<BR><strong>2</strong> : an official crier or messenger<BR><strong>3 a</strong> : one that precedes or foreshadows <strong>b</strong> : one that conveys news or proclaims : ANNOUNCER <it was the lark, the herald of the morn -- Shakespeare> <strong>c</strong> : one who actively promotes or advocates : EXPONENT<BR>synonym see FORERUNNER.</UL>The only meaning of the modern ones given that JRRT would ascribe to his Heralds is definition <strong>1b</strong> (<strong>1c</strong> refers purely to the ranks of a College of Heraldry). The principle role of Tolkien's Heralds is that of <em>War-leader</em>, more clearly seen through the etymology of 'harry' and 'wield'.<UL><strong><a href='http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=harry' target=_blank>Harry</a></strong> [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=harry]<BR><u>Main Entry</u>: <strong>har·ry </strong><BR><u>Pronunciation</u>: 'har-E<BR><u>Function</u>: <em>transitive verb</em><BR><u>Inflected Form(s)</u>: har·ried; har·ry·ing<BR><u>Etymology</u>: Middle English <em>harien</em>, from Old English <em>hergian</em>; akin to Old High German <em>heriOn</em> to lay waste, <em>heri</em> army, Greek <em>koiranos</em> ruler<BR>Date: before 12th century<pre> -------------------------</pre><strong><a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wield' target=_blank>wield</a></strong> [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=wield]<BR>Wield\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Wielded; p. pr. & vb. n. Wielding.] [OE. <em>welden</em> to govern, to have power over, to possess, AS. <em>geweldan, gewyldan</em>, from <em>wealdan</em>; akin to OS. <em>waldan</em>, OFries. <em>walda</em>, G. <em>walten</em>, OHG. <em>waltan</em>, Icel. <em>valda</em>, Sw. <em>v[*a]lla</em> to occasion, to cause, Dan. <em>volde</em>, Goth. <em>waldan</em> to govern, rule, L. <em>valere</em> to be strong. Cf. Herald, Valiant.] 1. To govern; to rule; to keep, or have in charge; also, to possess. [Obs.]<pre> -------------------------</pre><a href='http://56.1911encyclopedia.org/H/HE/HERALD.htm' target=_blank>HERALD</a> [http://56.1911encyclopedia.org/H/HE/HERALD.htm] (0. Fr. heraut, herault; the origin is uncertain, but O.H.G. heren, to call, or hariwald, <u>leader of an army</u>, have been proposed.</UL>So it appears that to JRRT, 'Herald' was a modernised form of the Anglo-saxon forms that corresponded to the (Old High German) <em>heri</em> <<army>>, and (Old High German) <em>waltan</em> <<to rule>> ) and thus meant "Army Commander". <BR><BR>This meaning is supported by JRRT's usage of the word, where both Eonwë in <em>The Silmarillion</em> and Elrond (both 'Heralds' ) act as War-Leaders and representatives (Vicegerents and plenipotentiaries) of Manwë and Gil-galad respectively, as well as perhaps the more modern role of 'Heralds' as messengers. Elrond leads Gil-galad's armies in the relief of Eregion and foundation of Imladris and would act as Gil-galad's general and lieutenant in battle.
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Postby roaccarcsson » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:36 pm

<strong>I was in the company that held the bridge, until it was cast down behind us.</strong><BR><BR>When Tolkien was young, every schoolboy knew the poem "Horatius at the Bridge," from the <em>Lays of Ancient Rome</em> by the nineteenth-century historian and politician Thomas Babington Macaulay. The poem tells in verse a story from the Roman historian Livy, about a hero from the early days of Rome, who with two others held a bridge against an Etruscan army while the outnumbered Romans destroyed it behind them. It begins "Lars Porsena of Clusium/By the nine gods he swore/that the great house of Tarquin/Should suffer wrong no more," and ends, "with weeping and with laughter/Still is the story told/Of how Horatius held the bridge/In the brave days of old." It used to be said that everyone knew one thing about the Etruscans: they had nine gods, by whom they swore.<BR><BR>The complete text, with notes and the passage from Livy, is here:<BR><BR><a href='http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1359.html' target=_blank>http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1359.html</a>
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:07 am

<strong>Next day Frodo woke early, feeling refreshed and well.</strong><BR><BR>The date is October 25, 3018.
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Postby Silverfoot » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:03 am

<strong>For the folk of Arnor dwindled, and their foes devoured them, and their lordship passed, leaving only green mounds in the grassy hills.</strong><BR><BR>The green mounds here are referring to the Barrow-Downs, where the people of Arnor were buried. (Probably a lot more info on this should be given in "Fog on the Barrow-Downs," but I figured the connection should be made.)<BR><BR>*wonders where all the Experts On Elvenlore are*
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Postby Queen_Beruthiel » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:22 pm

Well I ain't one of 'em. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Anyway...<BR><BR>From LOTR: <BR><BR><strong>Then all listened while Elrond in his clear voice spoke of Sauron and the Rings of Power, and their forging in the Second Age of the world long ago. A part of his tale was known to some there, but the full tale to none, and many eyes were turned to Elrond in fear and wonder as he told of the Elven-smiths of Eregion and their friendship with Moria, and their eagerness for knowledge, by which Sauron ensnared them. </strong><BR><BR>The Sil gives some more information on this point:<BR><BR><strong>It was in Eregion that the counsels of Sauron were most gladly received, for in that land the Noldor desired ever to increase the skill and subtlety of their works. Moreover they were not at peace in their hearts, since they had refused to return into the West, and they desired both to stay in Middle-earth, which indeed they loved, and yet to enjoy the bliss of those that had departed. Therefore they hearkened to Sauron, and they learned of him many things, for his knowledge was great. In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves, and to bring them under his vigilance.<BR>Now the Elves made many rings; but secretly Sauron made One Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last. And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency; and Sauron forged it in the Mountain of Fire in the Land of Shadow. And while he wore the One Ring he could perceive all the things that were done by means of the lesser rings, and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore them.<BR>But the Elves were not so lightly to be caught. As soon as Sauron set the One Ring upon his finger they were aware of him; and they knew him, and pereceived that he would be master of them, and of all that they wrought. Then in anger and fear they took off their rings.</strong><BR><BR>While Letter 131 gives yet more background and the author's thoughts:<BR><BR><strong>In the first we see a sort of second fall or at least “error” of the Elves… </strong><BR><BR><em>snip…</em><BR><BR><strong>There arose a friendship between the usually hostile folk (of Elves and Dwarves) for the first and only time, and smithcraft reached its highest development. But many of the Elves listened to Sauron. He was still fair in that early time, and his motives and those of the Elves seemed to go partly together: the healing of the desolate lands. </strong><BR><BR><em>snip</em><BR><BR><strong>But in Eregion great work began – and the Elves came their nearest to falling to ‘magic’ and machinery. With the aid of Sauron’s lore they made Rings of Power (‘power’ is an ominous and sinister word in all these tales, except as applied to the gods).</strong><BR><BR><em>snip</em><BR><BR><strong>The Elves of Eregion made Three superemely beautiful and powerful rings, almost solely of their own imagination, and directed to the preservation of beauty: they did not confer invisibility. But secretly in the subterranean Fire, in his own Black Land, Sauron made One Ring, the Ruling Ring that contained the powers of all the others, and controlled them, so that its wearer could see the thoughts of all those that user the lesser rings, could govern all they did, and in the end could utterly enslave them.</strong><BR><BR>There is another reference in Letters (but I can't find it) to the dreaded A word - the forging of the Rings of Power being an allegory of sorts... Ring any bells?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:54 pm

That's the stuff!<BR><BR><strong>But many another name he has been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men, and other names besides.</strong><BR><BR>Both these names mean "very old." <em>Forn</em> is Old Norse; <em>Orald</em> is a modernization of Old English <em>oreald</em>, cognate with German <em>uralt.</em>
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Postby Silverfoot » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:08 pm

Continuing what Queen Beruthiel said, there is even MORE info on that in the Unfinished Tales. Here's a bit:<BR><BR><strong> ...giving himself the name Annatar, Lord of Gifts...In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar... Sauron used all his arts upon Celebrimbor and his fellow-smiths, who had formed a society or brotherhood, very powerful in Eregion, the Gwaith-i-Mírdain; but he worked in secret, unknown to Galadriel and Celeborn. Before long Sauron had the Gwaith-i-Mírdain under his influence, for at first they had great profit from his instruction in secret matters of their craft... he persuaded them to revolt against Galadriel and Celeborn and to seize power in Eregion...<BR><BR>Sauron himself departed from Eregion about the year 1500, after the Mírdain had begun the making of the Rings of Power. Now Celebrimbor was not corrupted in heart or faith, but had accepted Sauron as what he posed to be; and when at length he discovered the existence of the One Ring he revolted against Sauron, and went to Lórinand to take counsel once more with Galadriel. They should have destroyed all the Rings of Power at this time, "but they failed to find the strength." Galadriel counselled him that the Three Rings of the Elves should be hidden, never used, and dispersed... It was at this time that she received Nenya...<BR><BR>...Sauron took the Nine Rings... but the Seven and the Three he could not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the Seven were bestowed. This Celebrimbor revealed, because neither the Seven nor the Nine did he value as he valued the Three; the Seven and the Nine were made with Sauron's aid, whereas the Three were made by Celebrimbor alone, with a different power and purpose... Concerning the Three Rings Sauron could learn nothing from Celebrimbor, and he had him put to death.</strong><BR><BR>(It is stated that "It is certain that this present text was composed after the publication of <em>The Lord of the Rings</em>... The text is much emended, and it is not always possible to see what belongs to the time of composition of the manuscript and what is indefinitely later."<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:19 pm

More good stuff.<BR><BR>It would be good IMO to add the approximate dates when these passages from Sil & UT were written. (In both cases, IIRC, after the publication of LotR.)
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Postby Silverfoot » Thu Mar 04, 2004 8:26 pm

I believe I found the letter to which Queen Beruthiel was referring. It has other good stuff too.<BR><BR>Tolkien wrote a letter in Sept 1954 (no number from me, since I got this info from UT and not Letters) that <strong>"At the beginning of the Second Age he [Sauron] was still beautiful to look at, or could still assume a beautiful visible shape... the Noldor or Loremasters, were always vulnerable on the side of 'science and technology,' as we should call it: they wanted to have the knowledge that Sauron genuinely had...<BR><BR>The particular 'desire' of the Eregion Elves--an 'allegory' if you like of a love of machinery, and technical devices--is also symbolized by their special friendship with the Dwarves of Moria."<strong>
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Postby Queen_Beruthiel » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:04 am

Thanks Silverfoot. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> That's exactly what I was thinking of. I'll give the exact reference when I get home and check my books.
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Postby ArPharazon » Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:00 pm

Seems like things are going well - please see my latest post in thre main Annotations thread. Good news!!!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>ArPhy
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Postby Elrámë » Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:16 am

The letter which Silverfoot and Queen_Beruthiel mean is <strong>Letter 153, a draft to Peter Hastings</strong><BR><BR>Also (although this may do better in the chapter <em>Farewell to Lórien</em>, when Eärendil is actually referred to as a star <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>):<BR><BR><strong>"'So it was indeed,' answered Elrond gravely. 'But my memory reaches back even to the Elder Days. Eärendil was my sire, who was born in Gondolin before its fall[.]"<BR><BR>From Letter 131: "His name is in actual origin Anglo-Saxon: <em>earendel</em> 'ray of light' applied sometimes to the morning star, a name of ramified mythological connexions (nowlargely obscure). But that is a mere 'learned note'. In fact his name is Elvish signifying the Great Mariner or Sea-lover."</strong>
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Postby Queen_Beruthiel » Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:18 am

More on Earendil from Letter 297:<BR><BR><strong>The most important name in this connection is Earendil. This name is in fact (as is obvious) derived from A-S earendel.</strong><BR><BR><em>snip</em><BR><BR><strong>To my mind the A-S uses seem plainly to indicate that it was a star presaging the dawn (at any rate in English tradition): that is what we now call Venus: the morning-star as it may be seen shining brilliantly in the dawn, before the actual rising of the Sun. That is at any rate how I took it. Before 1914 I wrote a "poem" upon Earendel who launched his ship like a bright spark from the havens of the Sun. I adopted him into my mythology - in which he became a prime figure as a mariner, and eventually as a herald star, and a sign of hope to men.</strong><BR><BR>There is a great deal more.<BR><BR>The line:<BR><BR><strong>Hail Earendel, brightest of angels, over Middle Earth sent to men.</strong><BR><BR>comes from the A-S poem <em>Crist</em>. Here it is in A-S:<BR><BR><strong>eala! earendel engla beorhtast ofer middangeard monnum sended.</strong>
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Postby MithLuin » Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:20 pm

Ok, they are out of the rough draft stage. Some of these could use more work, but at least stand on their own now. I've moved the ones that don't belong; I don't want to delete them though. Once those threads open, I'll transfer the material and then delete it.<BR>******************************************************************************<BR><strong>behind them, uninvited and for the moment forgotten, trotted Sam.</strong><BR><BR>Sam is present for the entire Council of Elrond, along with Frodo and Bilbo.<BR><BR><strong>his son Gimli</strong><BR>Gimli's mother is never named. Gimli was born in TA 2879, making him 39 years old. (add Wilko's comment here: Gimli is the only person named to be at the Council who does not speak.)<BR><BR><strong>a strange elf</strong><BR>Legolas Greenleaf, son of Thranduil of Mirkwood. His name comes from Sindarin 'Laegolas,' meaning 'collection of Green-leaves', or less literally, 'Greenleaf'.<BR>Information found here: <a href='messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=36472#1' target=_blank>Was Legolas at the Fall of Gondolin?</a><BR><BR><strong>You have come and are here met, in this very nick of time, by chance as it may seem. Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others must now find counsel for the peril of the world.</strong><BR><BR>Elrond is speaking here of fate, or divine providence. In Middle Earth, the Wise often perceive chance occurrences as being the action of Eru, the One. <BR><BR>In <em>Letter 192</em>, Tolkien refers to this action of Eru as "The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself), 'that one ever-present Person who is never absent and never named'"<BR><BR>This is significant, because at least one person may be present against this design. See the note below on Faramir. Also, the decision of this council may be seen as, in some ways, endorsed by Eru.<BR><BR>Fate also plays a role on Bilbo's finding of the Ring (see "Shadows of the Past" ) and at the Climax on Mount Doom.<BR><BR><strong>three men only came ever back</strong><BR>Ohtar, the esquire of Isildur, one of Ohtar's companions, and Estelmo, the esquire of Elendur. See <em>UT: The Disaster of the Gladden Fields</em> for the full story. Ohtar brought the shards of Narsil to Rivendell. The original Elendilmir [silver circlet with a single white gem that served as the crown in the North] was lost with Isildur and later found by Saruman. <BR><BR><strong>Valandil, the heir of Isildur, who being but a child had remained here in Rivendell</strong><BR>Isildur had four sons: Elendur, Aratan, Ciryon and Valandil. Elendur was born in SA 3299 in Numenor. Aratan was born in 3339; Ciryon was born in 3379, both in Middle Earth [see HoME 12]. Valandil was born in SA 3430 in Rivendell just prior to the Last Alliance [see note in App A (ii) "The Realms in Exile"]. The three older sons survived the Last Alliance and were all slain with their father at the Gladden Fields in TA 2. During these battles, Valandil remained in Rivendell with his mother [see "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" in <em>The Silmarillion</em>.] He died in TA 249. In later years, after the fall of the North Kingdom, it became a tradition for the heir of Isildur to reside in Rivendell, particularly in childhood. This tradition began with Arahael, son of Aranarth, son of Arvedui Last-King. [see App. A (iii) "The North Kingdom and the Dunedain"] <BR><BR><strong>a white tree, from the seed of that tree which Isildur brought over the deep waters</strong><BR>Isildur, son of Elendil, brought a seedling from the White Tree of Numenor with him to Middle Earth. (see Gandalf's Rhyme of Lore p. **) That seedling was planted in Minas Ithil, but was destroyed by Sauron before the Last Alliance. Thus, the (original) white tree of Minas Anor (later Minas Tirith) was planted by Isildur in TA 2. (Will we have a note somewhere else about the significance of the white tree? Or is this a good place for it?)<BR><BR><strong>a hundred and ten days I have journeyed all alone</strong><BR>Boromir set out from Minas Tirith on July 4, 3018.<BR><BR><strong>a dream came to my brother</strong><BR>Faramir (TA 2983), five years younger than Boromir, is 37 years old at this time. They are the only children of Denethor, Steward of Minas Tirith, and Finduilas of Dol Amroth(TA 2950-2988). Since the dream came first and often to Faramir, it is possible that he was the one intended to undertake the journey to Imladris.<BR><BR><strong>Loth was my father to give me leave</strong><BR>Both Faramir and Denethor give their opinions on this decision later. See p. *** of <em>The Two Towers</em> and p. *** of <em>Return of the King</em><BR><BR><strong>At this, Gloin stirred, but did not speak.</strong><BR>The dwarves believe that the Ring of Thror was lost in Moria. See p. ** (later in the same chapter)<BR><BR>From Isildur’s scroll:<BR><strong>an heirloom of the North Kingdom</strong><BR>The North Kingdom is Arnor. Later, Faramir uses the word “heirloom” to describe the Ring.<BR><BR><strong> I will risk no hurt to this thing;…it is precious to me.</strong><BR>Isildur’s words reveal that the Ring has been working on him the same way it did on Gollum, Bilbo and Frodo. (<strong>roac</strong>'s note about "precious" goes here, too.)<BR><BR><strong>It came some time ago, after I left the Shire, I think.</strong><BR>Frodo’s dream of Gandalf occurred on Sept. 26, 3018, the first night in the House of Tom Bombadil. At the time, Frodo mistook the hoofbeats in his dream for Black Riders. <BR><BR><strong>Then it was late in coming</strong><BR>Gandalf escaped from Orthanc on Sept. 18, 3018. By Sept. 26th, Gandalf (on Shadowfax) had nearly reached the Greyflood.<BR><BR><strong>Gwaihir</strong><BR>The name Gwaihir is Sindarin for "Wind-lord"<BR>Tolkien drew a picture of the Eagle who rescued Bilbo in the Hobbit. Link, please, <strong>scirocco</strong>?<BR><em>Tolkien adapted the eagle, with stylized feathers and brighter colours, from a picture of an immature Golden Eagle in T. A. Coward's The Birds of the British Isles and Their Eggs (first series, first published 1919 ), necessarily omitting the eagle's dead prey.</em><BR>J. R. R. Tolkien Artist and Illustrator by Hammond and Scull<BR>In the meantime, here are some pictures of golden eagles: <a href='http://www2.ucsc.edu/scpbrg/Student/Galleries/gold.htm' target=_blank>http://www2.ucsc.edu/scpbrg/Student/Galleries/gold.htm</a><BR><BR><strong>They pay a tribute of horses</strong><BR>Gwaihir’s information is a false rumour. Boromir is correct. This rumour is repeated to Eomer and refuted by him. See p. of <em>The Two Towers</em>. In a very early draft of the story, it is possible that Gwaihir's news was intended to be the truth. (see Wilko's comment)<BR><BR><em>Plenty of opportunity to annotate dates correlating Gandalf’s movements to Frodo’s.</em><BR><BR><strong>of them it is not permitted to speak…they are not idle</strong><BR>The Three elven rings are Vilya, Nenya and Narya. Vilya is the mightiest, and was given by Gil-galad to Elrond. It is a gold band with a blue stone, and its name means “Ring of Air” Nenya, called the Ring of Adamant, was given to Galadriel by Celebrimbor himself. It has a clear stone on a mithril band. “Nen” means “water”. Narya has a red stone. It was given to Gandalf by Cirdan the Shipwright when he first arrived at the Grey Havens. “Nar” means “fire.” These Rings are not visible to others.<BR><BR>When Gandalf discusses the fate of the dwarf-ring of Thror:<BR>TA 2845 is the date Thrain is imprisoned in Dol Guldor. He died in TA 2850.<BR><BR><strong>though all the mighty elf-friends of old, Hador, and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.</strong><BR><BR><em>A statement in obvious need of annotation <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. More work can be done than what I have begun.</em><BR><BR>Elf-friend – Frodo is named an elf-friend by Gildor Inglorion. See p. *** Goldberry also recognizes this. See p. ***<BR><BR>of old - all of these elf-friends lived during the First Age. Their stories are told in <em>The Silmarillion</em><BR><BR>Hador - Hador, called the Goldenhaired, was the founder of the Third of the three houses of the Edain, men who were friendly with the Noldor. He pledged his services to Fingolfin. He was the Lord of Dor-lomin, and the grandfather(?) of Hurin and Huor.<BR><BR>Hurin - older brother of Huor, husband of Morwen and father of Turin, Lalaith and Nienor. He and Huor visited Gondolin and were friends of King Turgon. During the Nirnaeth Anoriead, Huor and Hurin formed a rearguard, allowing Turgon to escape back to Gondolin. Huor was killed by and arrow in his eye, but Hurin was taken alive after slaying over 70 orcs. <BR><BR>Beren- see annotation under <em>A Knife in the Dark</em><BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>This material goes elsewhere - I will transfer it to other threads when they are open.<BR><BR>The age of Legolas is not given, but it is unlikely that he was born before the end of the Second Age.<BR><em>In the Second Age their king, Oropher [the father of Thranduil, father of Legolas], had withdraw northward beyond the Gladden Fields. This he did to be free from the power and encroachments of the Dwarves of Moria, which had grown to be the greatest of the mansions of the Dwarves recorded in history; and also he resented the intrusions of Celeborn and Galadriel into Lórien. But as yet there was little to fear between the Greenwood </em>[later, Mirkwood]<em> and the Mountains and there was constant intercourse between his people and their kin across the river, until the War of the Last Alliance.</em><BR>UT: Appendix B: The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves<BR>Legolas states that he has never been to Lórien; see p. **<BR>[actually, this entire annotation should go with his comment there, with a note referring it to the 500 years comment.]<BR><BR>Frodo notes that Arwen looks very like her father Elrond, and it is also said the Arwen resembles Luthien. Luthien is Arwen’s great-great grandmother. (Perhaps this should go with the passage in <em>Many Meetings</em>?)
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Postby Unwin » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:35 pm

<strong>... the Nine the Nazgul keep</strong><BR><BR>This is the first use of the word Nazgul in the text. From the connection with the Nine Rings, we derive that they are the Black Riders who are in pursuit of Frodo. From the inscription on the One that Gandalf intones later in the chapter, <strong>"Ash nazg..."</strong>, we can also see that "Nazg" means Ring in the Black Speech with "Ash" meaning One.<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby MithLuin » Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:12 pm

The Ring Inscription: <strong>Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.</strong><BR><BR>Ash = one<BR>nazg = ring (see Nazgul=ring-wraith)<BR>durb = rule<BR>-at = infinitive ending<BR>-ul = them<BR>-ûk = completeness of action<BR><BR>gimbat = to find<BR>-ul = them<BR>thrakat = to bring<BR>-ul = them<BR>-ûk = fully<BR><BR>agh = and<BR>burzum = darkness (see Lugburz = Dark Tower)<BR>-ishi = in (the hypen does not appear in the Tengwar inscription)<BR>krimpat = to bind<BR>-ul = them<BR><BR>It is also possible that <em>-at</em> is not the infinitive, but an "intended future" conjugation.<BR><BR>This is all taken from here: <em>Ardalambion: Orkish and the Black Speech</em><BR><a href='http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/orkish.htm' target=_blank>http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/orkish.htm</a><BR><BR>Also, <strong>Unwin</strong>, you may want to reference <em>gul</em> in Morgul or Dol Guldor with Nazgul. Or, you may not. They are different languages <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>.
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Postby wilko185 » Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:20 pm

Some of these are a bit "obvious", referring to the later parts of the book, and may even be story spoilers for a first-time reader.<BR><BR><strong>On a baldric he [Boromir] wore a great horn tipped with silver</strong><BR><OL><a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=baldric' target=_blank>baldric</a>: A belt, usually of ornamented leather, worn across the chest to support a sword or bugle.<BR><BR>This horn has been carried by the eldest son of the Steward of Gondor for nearly a millenium, <strong>"since Vorondil father of Mardil hunted the wild kine of Araw in the far fields of Rhûn"</strong> (Denethor in V Ch 1). Mardil became the first ruling steward in TA 2050.</OL><BR><strong>"no dwarf has dared to pass the doors of Khazad-dûm for many lives of kings, save Thrór only, and he perished."</strong><BR><OL>Thrór (father of Thráin and grandfather of Thorin) entered Moria and was slain by Azog the orc, father of Bolg who fought at the Battle of Five Armies in <em>The Hobbit</em>. This act precipitated war between dwarves and orcs, culminating in the Battle of Azanulbizar in which Dáin Ironfoot slew Azog at the eastern gates of Moria. He then looked inside Moria, and apparently saw Durin's Bane. <strong>"Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."</strong> (Appendix A).</OL><BR><strong>"the Spear of Gil-galad and the Sword of Elendil, Aiglos [so spelled in my copy] and Narsil, none could withstand."</strong><BR><OL><strong><em>Aeglos</em>, "snowthorn", is said to have been like furze (gorse), but larger, and with white flowers. <em>Aeglos</em> was also the name of the spear of Gil-galad.</strong> (UT Chapter 2, footnote 14).<BR><BR>Narsil was forged by the great dwarven smith Telchar of Nogrod in the First Age. <strong><em>Narsil</em> is a name composed of 2 basic stems without variation or adjuncts: [root]<em>NAR</em> 'fire', & [root]<em>THIL</em> 'white light'. It thus symbolised the chief heavenly lights, as enemies of darkness, Sun (<em>Anar</em>) and Moon (in Q[uenya]) <em>Isil</em>. </strong> (Letter #347).</OL><BR><strong>'"This I will have as weregild for my father, and my brother,"'</strong><BR><OL><a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=weregild' target=_blank>weregild</a>[AS. wergild; <em>wer</em> a man, value set on a man's life + <em>gild</em> payment of money; akin to G. wehrgeld. ... (O. Eng. Law) The price of a man's head; a compensation paid of a man killed, partly to the king for the loss of a subject, partly to the lord of a vassal, and partly to the next of kin. It was paid by the murderer.<BR><BR>The payment of weregilds was very important in the old north-European "pagan" system of justice. They are often demanded in sagas as recompense for a death. [I'm sure someone can provide some good examples?]</OL><BR><strong>"The Dark Tower was broken, but its foundations were not removed; for they were made with the power of the Ring, and while it remains they will endure."</strong><OL>According to Appendix B, Sauron completed the Barad-dûr and forged the Ring in ca. 1600 SA. Thus the Ring was not forged until ca. 600 years after the foundations of the Dark Tower were laid, so we must presume they were not literally made with the Ring, but that it was used to strengthen or establish them. Tolkien's footnote 11 to Part IV ch. 1 of UT speaks of <strong>Sauron's transference of power to the foundations of the Barad-dûr and to the Ruling Ring.</strong></OL><BR><strong>"...Gil-galad and Elendil were no more. Never again shall there be any such league of Elves and Men; for Men multiply and the Firstborn decrease, and the two kindreds are estranged."</strong><OL>An alliance of sorts between Elves and Men destroyed the kingdom of Angmar in TA 1973. Excerpts from Appendix A:<BR><strong>'But when Eärnur came to the Grey Havens there was joy and great wonder among both Elves and Men. ...<BR>Then Círdan summoned all who would come to him, from Lindon or Arnor, and when all was ready the host crossed the Lune and marched north to challenge the Witch-king of Angmar. ...<BR>the cavalry of Gondor overtook him [the Witch-king] with Eärnur riding at their head. At the same time a force under Glorfindel the Elf-lord came up out of Rivendell. Then so utterly was Angmar defeated that not a man nor an orc of that realm remained west of the Mountains.</strong></OL><BR><BR><BR><BR>Some little points on Mithluin's previous post:<BR><BR><em>Sam is present for the entire Council of Elrond, along with Frodo and Bilbo.</em><BR><BR>As is Gimli, the only named person not reported to speak at the Council, presumably in deference to his father.<BR><BR><em>Luthien, who married the mortal Beren and died.</em><BR><BR>Perhaps.. "and became mortal" sounds better? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. Many elves have died of course, but only one actually became mortal, an important precursor for Arwen.<BR><BR><em>>>They pay a tribute of horses<BR>Gwaihir’s information is a false rumor. </em><BR><BR>A very minor point: HOME 7 shows that Gwaihir's false rumour was originally intended to be a fact:<OL>"They pay tribute... yearly in horses to Mordor," said Gwaewar, "but they are not yet under the yoke* ..."<BR><BR>* Cf. VI. 422 (the earliest text of 'The Ring Goes South'): 'The Horse-kings have long been in the service of Sauron.'</OL>In this earliest mention of the Rohirrim, their role was not yet clearly established.<BR><BR>BTW, is it best to use standard US or UK spelling, or just whatever the entries are written in? I'm thinking of if/when I transfer more material to the site I started (eg rumor vs rumour etc).
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Postby Silverfoot » Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:11 pm

I wouldn't think many first-timers would be looking up annotations, would you? So spoilers probably won't be a problem.<BR><BR>As for US or UK spelling, it personally doesn't make any difference to me... I would think it would just be easiest for whoever types the facts to spell the words however they are accustomed to. Anyone have any serious objections to the "opposite spelling"? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby wilko185 » Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:59 am

<strong>Silverfoot</strong>, I don't strongly object to US spellings, but I reserve the right to standardize them on my site <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR><strong><em>All that is gold does not glitter</em></strong><BR><OL>Tolkien seems to have been the first writer to invert the general meaning of the traditional saying (see <a href='http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/messageview.cfm?catid=27&threadid=52378' target=_blank>here</a>). Cf the Latin proverb: <em>Non omne quod nitet aurum est</em>, (‘Not all that shines is gold.’). Some <a href='http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/18/messages/56.html' target=_blank>variations</a>:<BR><BR>Alanus De Insulis (c. 1280) "Non teneas aurum totum quod splendet ut aurum." (Do not hold everything as gold which shines like gold)<BR><BR>Freire Cordelier (c. 1300) "Que tout n’est pas or c’on voit luire." (Everything is not gold that one sees shining)<BR><BR>Chaucer (c. 1380) "But all thing which that schyneth as the gold / Ne is no gold, as I have herd it told."<BR><BR>Chaucer again "Hyt is not al golde that glareth."<BR><BR>Lydgate (c. 1430) "All is not golde that outward shewith bright."<BR><BR>Spenser (c. 1580) "Gold all is not that doth golden seem."<BR><BR>Googe (1563), Shakespeare in <em>The Merchant of Venice</em> (1596) "All that glisters is not gold."<BR><BR>Bacon (1596) "All is not gold that glisters."<BR><BR>Cervantes (1615) "All is not gold that glistreth."<BR><BR>Middleton (c. 1616) "All is not gold that glisteneth."<BR><BR>Herbert (c. 1630) "All is not gold that glisters."<BR><BR>Dryden (1687) "All, as they say, that glitters is not gold."</OL><BR><strong>"I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhûn and Harad where the stars are strange."</strong><BR><OL>Rhûn and Harad simply mean East and South respectively, and do not refer to specific realms in those regions. <strong>The "strange stars" apply strictly only to the Harad, and must mean that Aragorn travelled or voyaged some distance into the southern hemisphere.</strong> (Tolkien's footnote 10 to Part IV Ch. 2 of UT).</OL><BR><strong>'But I will now tell the true story, and if some here have heard me tell it otherwise' – he looked sidelong at Glóin – 'I ask them to forget it and forgive me. I only wished to claim the treasure as my very own in those days, and to be rid of the name of thief that was put on me.'</strong><BR><OL>The false story Bilbo is referring to is the one Tolkien published in the first edition of <em>The Hobbit</em>, in which Gollum actually offered the Ring to Bilbo. When Tolkien came to write LOTR and the magic Ring acquired much more significance and power, he realised that Gollum's behaviour was implausible, and revised <em>The Hobbit</em> accordingly. In the pseudo-hstory of the book, the earlier version then cleverly becomes Bilbo's first version of the story in which he is trying to establish his claim on the Ring. <BR><strong>This account Bilbo set down in his memoirs, and he seems never to have altered it himself, not even after the Council of Elrond. Evidently it still appeared in the original Red Book, as it did in several of the copies and abstracts. But many copies contain the true account (as an alternative), derived no doubt from notes by Frodo or Samwise, both of whom learned the truth, though they seem to have been unwilling to delete anything actually written by the old hobbit himself.</strong> (LOTR Prologue).</OL><BR><strong><em>'It was hot when I first took it, hot as a glede...'</em></strong><BR><OL><a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=glede' target=_blank>glede</a>: archaic word for a glowing coal or ember.<BR><BR>Isildur's archaic grammar and vocabulary (glede, saith etc) reflects his remote place in history relative to the end of the Third Age.<BR>Edit: Tom Shippey comments much more on Tolkien's "unusual ability to suggest cultural variation by differences in mode of speech" in this chapter, in Chapter 2 of <em>Author of the Century</em>.</OL>edit:<BR><BR><strong>'Isengard is a circle of sheer rocks that enclose a valley as with a wall, and in the midst of that valley is a tower of stone called Orthanc.'</strong><BR><OL><strong><em>Isen</em> is an old variant form in English of <em>iron</em>; <em>gard</em> a Germanic word meaning 'enclosure', especially one round a dwelling or group of buildings</strong> (Tolkien's 'Guide to the Names in <em>The Lord of the Rings</em>').<BR><BR><strong>This was Orthanc, the citadel of Saruman, the name of which had (by design or chance) a twofold meaning; for in the Elvish speech orthanc signifies Mount Fang, but in the language of the Mark of old the Cunning Mind.</strong> (Book III, Ch 8). This double-meaning seems strange, as Old English is only being used to represent the "real" Rohirric tongue for the benefit of the reader, and the name is presumably something different in Rohirric.<BR><em>...the implication of Tolkien's statement is that the word has the same form and meaning in actual Rohirric (otherwise, there would be no pun apparent to the characters). A remarkable coincidence, indeed!'</em> ~Carl Hostetter, quoted by <strong>cian</strong> in <a href='http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=73427' target=_blank>this thread</a>.</OL><BR><strong>'"Radagast the Brown!" laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool!"</strong><BR><OL>The <em>Istari</em> were chosen by different Valar. Radagast was selected by Yavanna the Vala of Nature, while Saruman was of the people of her spouse, Aulë the craftsman (see UT Part IV ch. 2).</OL><BR><strong>'the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands'</strong><OL>There are many notes on the movements of the Black Riders in Unfinished Tales. I don't know if it's worth trying to summarise them, or just refer people to Chapter 4 of Part III of UT.</OL><BR><strong>'... Mayhap the Sword-that-was-Broken may still stern the tide – if the hand that wields it has inherited not an heirloom only, but the sinews of the Kings of Men.'<BR>'Who can tell?' said Aragorn. 'But we will put it to the test one day.'</strong><BR><OL><em>though this is said easily, it contains within it a heroic forumla often found in Old English ('now is the time', the heroes cry to each other, 'to put our boasts to the test').</em> (Tom Shippey, <em>Author of the Century</em> ch. 2).</OL><BR><strong>'I was very comfortable here, and getting on with my book. If you want to know, I am just writing an ending for it. I had thought of putting: <em>and he lived happily ever afterwards to the end of his days</em>. It is a good ending, and none the worse for having been used before. Now I shall have to alter that: it does not look like coming true; and anyway there will evidently have to be several more chapters, if I live to write them.'</strong><BR><OL>This is in fact a close paraphrase of a sentence from the end of <em>The Hobbit</em>, one which Tolkien had trouble reconciling with Bilbo being involved in a sequel. <strong>the original Hobbit was never intended to have a sequel – Bilbo 'remained very happy to the end of his days and those were extraordinarily long': a sentence I find an almost insuperable obstacle to a satisfactory link.</strong> (Letter #31, July 1938).</OL>
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Postby Aravar » Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:11 pm

<strong>The Council of Elrond</strong>(Chapter Heading)<BR><BR>This Chapter is the longest single chapter in the Lord of the Rings. Early drafts of it can be found in HOME Vol 6 pp399-411 and HOME Vol 7 pp110-161.<BR><BR>Tom Shippey, in his book 'Tolkien: Author of the Century', deals with the Council at length at pp 68-82<BR><BR><BR><BR><strong>'I will take the Ring,' he said, 'though I do not know the way.' </strong><BR><BR>Tolkien himself gives this as an example of grace:<BR><BR>'Frodo was given 'grace': first to answer the call (at the end of the Council) after long resisting a complete surrender...' Letter 246, footnote.<BR><BR><strong>Then through all the years that followed he traced the Ring; but since that history is elsewhere recounted, even as Elrond himself set it down in his books of lore it is not here recounted.... Of Numenor he spoke, its glory and fall</strong><BR><BR>For fuller accounts see The Silmarillion, 1st Unwin Paperback Edition pp311-339 (The Akallabeth) and 343-367 (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age).<BR><BR>The reference to the tale being in other lore books continues the fiction that this is a translation fo th Red Book of Westmarch. Compare ROTK (Collins Paperback Ed) p1004, which gives the title page of that book.<BR><BR> <strong>But Saruman said nay and repeated what he had said to us before: that the One would never again be found in Middle-earth.</strong><BR><BR>A short fragment on Gandalf, Saruman and the Ring can be found in UT (1st Ed) pp348-352
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Postby Alberich » Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:10 pm

<em>The message here is essentially a negative one, but I can’t think of a better place to comment on the relationship between the story and contemporary events.</em><BR><BR>Saruman: <strong>As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose</strong>. <BR><BR>It is hard for readers to avoid seeing parallels between this and the view that democrats of Tolkien’s era took towards intellectual collaborators with the Nazi or Soviet regimes. Here for example is what the historian Robert Conquest (‘The Great Terror’ p. 125) has to say about the Soviet oppositionists who submitted to Stalin in the 1930s: “their admissions that Stalin was after all right, were based on the idea that it was correct to ... suffer any humiliation, to remain in ... the Party. In this way, they thought, when Stalin’s policies came to grief, they themselves would be there, available as the alternative leadership which the Party must then seek”. <BR><BR>Yet Tolkien always insisted that it was wrong to draw any direct parallels. Although, even in 1943 when Stalin was a wartime ally, he regarded him as “a bloodthirsty old murderer” (Letters: 53), his reaction was forceful when his Swedish translator wrote that “Here in Mordor rules the personification of Satanic might Sauron (read perhaps ... Stalin)”. Tolkien’s response was “I utterly repudiate any such ‘reading’, which angers me. ... Such allegory is entirely foreign to my thought” (Letters: 229).<BR>
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Postby MithLuin » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:56 pm

<strong>A power was there that we have not felt before</strong><BR><BR>Boromir is referring to the Lord of the Nazgul (also called Ringwraiths, or Black Riders), the Witch-King of Angmar.
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Postby roaccarcsson » Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:47 pm

<strong>It is precious to me, though I buy it with great pain.</strong><BR><BR>Gollum, Bilbo, Frodo, and Bombadil have all used the word "precious" to refer to the Ring. Repetition of the word is an effective unifying device.
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Postby roaccarcsson » Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:52 pm

If we are going in for interpretation, and why not, I have to be allowed this:<BR><BR><strong>Frodo glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him.</strong><BR><BR>As Elrond shortly says, he has already concluded that Frodo is the chosen Ringbearer. Yet he scrupulously refrains from influencing Frodo's decision, even by glance. Respect for the free will of others is the common thread running through the actions of the "good" characters in <em>The Lord of the Rings.</em>
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