The Myers-Briggs Personality Type Indicator

Manwë was known for many things, but wisdom and power are two that lead the rest of his attributes. Join the Councils and discuss the more weighty matters of Tolkien Fandom.

What is your Myers-Briggs personality type?

INTJ
16
17%
INTP
30
31%
ENTP
6
6%
INFJ
10
10%
INFP
19
20%
ENFJ
2
2%
ENFP
1
1%
ISTJ
6
6%
Other SJ
6
6%
 
Total votes : 96

Postby Lord_Morningstar » Sun Feb 13, 2005 4:32 am

Denethor wrote:Just out of curiousity, would you agree with the usual classification of Dr Watson (Holmes' assistant) as an ISFJ?


Actually, not. He seems to be a bit too imaginative and abstract, and he gets on well with the INTJ Holmes when ISFJs and INTJs typically clash. I know some ISFJs, and they don't remind me of Watson at all, or visa-versa. He strikes me as being a bit like Ron Weasly from Harry Potter; unclassifiable due to contradictions in his character.
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Postby yovargas » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:59 am

Denethor wrote:BTW, does anyone else find it rather disturbing that Adolf Hitler and Santa Claus have the same personality type? :Q


It's stuff like this that made me lose most of my interest in the MBTI thing. It doesn't really help to classify people much at all in my bit of experience with it. For example, LM says:

Of course he is only being nice for his own benefit, but it’s the fact that he can be nice that was persuasive in my mind.
,

which I find a silly thing to say since everybody can be nice and more I'd say that all types are naturally nice people if they are emotionally healthy folks. So it might take a bit less effort for SJs or whatever, but it's not like one can use the MBTI as an excuse to say that NTs are natural born jerks. We're not!
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:08 pm

yovargas wrote: It's stuff like this that made me lose most of my interest in the MBTI thing. It doesn't really help to classify people much at all in my bit of experience with it.


Trying to classify fictional characters can be a bit pointless, and when we get on to folk figures it becomes a bit silly. Santa Claus does not have a personality; he is not a human. He does not have the flaws of any type.

yovargas wrote: which I find a silly thing to say since everybody can be nice and more I'd say that all types are naturally nice people if they are emotionally healthy folks.


When I say ‘be nice’ I meant ‘be bubbly and cheerful and make have conversations with a total stranger’. I couldn’t do that.
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Postby Incitatus » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:35 am

Where would you place: Julius Caesar, Boadicea, Nero, Marcus Aurelius, Constantine and Alaric the Barbarian?

I'm planning a 5 part Hollywood movie series dealing with these characters. Each film is set approximately 100 years apart, covering half a millenium of European history, from Julius Caesar's conquests to the Visigoth attack in 410.

I've noticed, however, that film is a rather useless medium for delivering the "narrative" of history - this happened, then this happened, etc, etc. I saw two accounts of Julius Caesar's life recently, one a 2 hour plus film, the other a brief 30 min History Channel documentray. The film contained considerably less information than the documentary, and even that was just going over the absolute basics. It seems to me the best way for movies to present history is to concentrate on what it looked and felt like, showing the culture, religion etc. I'll be taking a Star Wars or Lord of the Rings approach, presenting ancient Europe as an alternate universe to "step into".

I'm also interested in de-Christianising Hollywood History. Modern Epics arn't so bad, but the old 50's ones seem rather biased, often with faultless Christian characters and deplorable pagans. I don't mean I'll reinterpret history to criticise Christians, I'll simply try and keep it accurate to the historical sources.

Anyway, enough about that. Can someone help me with the myer-briggs analyses? (And tell me how I can pull my plan off - I'm just a lowly English teacher)
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Postby yovargas » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:11 am

Lord_Morningstar wrote:When I say ‘be nice’ I meant ‘be bubbly and cheerful and make have conversations with a total stranger’. I couldn’t do that.


But many other INTs can.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:21 am

Julius (and Augustus) Ceasar were both INTJs. In many cases, a powerful ruler lays the groundwork for a dynasty but a weak or foolish heir lets it go to waste. This did not happen at the start of the Roman Empire. Two politically and militarily cunning INTJs, one after the other, created the Julio-Claudian dynasty from the Roman Republic. As for the others, I really don’t know. I can make a few guesses at the other Julio-Claudian Emperors; Tiberius was probably a Guardian, Caligula most certainly an FJ, possibly ENFJ (although how much of his personality was madness is hard to guess), Claudius without doubt an IN and Nero probably an EF of some sort (another one too mad to work out). I might look some of them up on Wikipedia and work it out.

Here we go…

Tiberius (AD 14-37)

Wikipedia describes him as ‘Saturnine’, which dictionary.com defines as ‘Melancholy or sullen’ or ‘Having or marked by a tendency to be bitter or sardonic’. He lived in self imposed exile for a large part of his life, and was known to be ruthless on occasion. I’ll go with ISTJ. As an aside, he is often described as having immense physical size and strength (he could push his finger through a ripe apple).

Picture

Caligula (AD 37-41)

Wikipedia describes him as being extravagant, eccentric, sometimes despotic, hot tempered, yet able to act in a servile manner to stay alive (generally while staying with Tiberius). His insanity could be nervous breakdown, implying that he was not the sort of person that could cope with the pressures of ruling. I’m going for ENFJ.

Picture

Claudius (AD 41-54)

He was an academic, wrote extensively, tried to reform the Roman Alphabet, did not really want to become Emperor but embarked on many ambitious and often successful projects when he did, and had his third wife killed on his orders. Could be INTJ, but I keep leaning to INTP for some reason.

Picture

Nero (54-68)

Loved to hold public performances, would stage huge concerts in which he would play the harp and sing, was known to act irrationally, fancied himself an artist, held orgies by the light of the burning corpses of his victims, opened up his palace to provide accommodation to refugees displaced by the great fire of Rome, attempted to rename Rome ‘Neropolis’, and was probably mad. I’m going for ESFP.

Picture

Finally…

Julio-Claudian Family Tree

Conclusion; the Empire goes best when ruled by NTs.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:22 am

yovargas wrote:
Lord_Morningstar wrote:When I say ‘be nice’ I meant ‘be bubbly and cheerful and make have conversations with a total stranger’. I couldn’t do that.


But many other INTs can.


And keep it up for a week? I think not. I can have conversations with strangers and be nice and friendly, but I couldn’t do it to the extent that Dracula did. He reminds me of the INFJs that I know in his manner anyway.
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Postby Incitatus » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:50 am

Thanks alot, LM. I thought Nero was an ESFP too, but I guessed Julius as an ENTJ. Do you have any idea about Marcus Aurelius? And any info about historical INFPs would be interesting too. I already know the obvious ones, like Joan of Arc, Homer, possibly Jesus, I'm interested in your own thoughts.
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Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:05 pm

Incitatus wrote:Where would you place: Julius Caesar, Boadicea, Nero, Marcus Aurelius, Constantine and Alaric the Barbarian?


I love Boadicea. :) She's my role-model, actually. I think classifying her would be rather difficult, given the scarcity of material about her (and more specifically, her personality). I'm not even sure you could say whether or not she was an I or an E. She certainly had tactical and strategic intelligence, which would put her in the experiencer or conceptualizer categories. However, reading over the experiencer sub-types, I don't see any that jump out at me as good possibilities, except for, perhaps, the ISTP.

She could've been an ENTJ (though I hope not because they're my least favorite type!). She might have been an INTJ, even. It's very difficult to say, imo, given that she was forced into her circumstances by severe persecution and personal tragedy.

(As an INTP, I wouldn't normally seek out confrontational situations; however, if someone killed my husband and then raped my two daughters while I was watching I'd be ready to kick a** and could imagine myself, if I had the means, planning as spectacular of an attack as I could plan on my enemies. I think this would apply to most types.)

That being said, I could also see her as an ENFP or an INFJ.

I'm also interested in de-Christianising Hollywood History. Modern Epics arn't so bad, but the old 50's ones seem rather biased, often with faultless Christian characters and deplorable pagans. I don't mean I'll reinterpret history to criticise Christians, I'll simply try and keep it accurate to the historical sources.


That would be fine, but I would humbly ask that you not go too far the other way either. By which I mean, please don't forget that much of Europe was actually Christian, and that not all of those Christians were evil brutes intent on making everyone kneel before them. ;)

(It's a major beef of mine. Take the recent King Arthur movie for example. I liked the fact that they portrayed the non-Christians as compassionate, decent, real people, with their own somewhat decent system of ethics and such. However, I didn't appreciate the very definite anti-Christian bias of the movie. Let's make all the Christians corrupt, evil, brutal torturers, with no sense of decency or compassion, bent on controlling the minds and actions of everyone everywhere. Death to free-thinking and equality! Conform or be tortured or exiled! Etc. :roll:)

[/rant]


Lalaith

Edit for incredibly funny typo. ;) See below.
Last edited by LalaithUrwen on Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MariaHobbit » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:51 pm

LalaithUrwen wrote: (As an INTP, I wouldn't normally seek out confrontational situations; however, if someone killed my husband and then raped my two daughters while I was watching I'd be ready to kiss a** and could imagine myself, if I had the means, planning as spectacular of an attack as I could plan on my enemies. I think this would apply to most types.)


Errrr.... Do you perhaps mean Kick instead of Kiss? Though, maybe, the kiss might work too????? :?

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:
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Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:14 pm

MariaHobbit wrote:
LalaithUrwen wrote: (As an INTP, I wouldn't normally seek out confrontational situations; however, if someone killed my husband and then raped my two daughters while I was watching I'd be ready to kiss a** and could imagine myself, if I had the means, planning as spectacular of an attack as I could plan on my enemies. I think this would apply to most types.)


Errrr.... Do you perhaps mean Kick instead of Kiss? Though, maybe, the kiss might work too????? :?

:whistle: :whistle: :whistle:



:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Obviously, I meant "kick." Can you tell I was typing that and giving my daughter her spelling lesson at the same time? :D

:blush:

Funny. I'd better change that, eh?


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Postby MariaHobbit » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:19 pm

LOL! :rofl:

That is one of the funniest typos ever! :D
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Postby Nerdanel » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:37 pm

I think I have found a type that is less compatible with me than my brother's ISFP. My new really annoying flatmate seems to be an ESFP.

Perhaps the ultimate incompatible type can be attained by switching all the letters but the last or perhaps my sample is too biased. She is 17 after all.

Meanwhile I've been typing some characters from Benford's Galactic Center series that no one except me seems to be interested in. Killeen is an INTP and if I am not mistaken he has Asperger's Syndrome too. No wonder I like him so much. Nigel is an ENTP and I find him wearisome. Alexandria might be an ENFJ or something and Nikka an INTP or INTJ. Shibo is some sort of introverted intuitive; I'm guessing INTP. Paris would be an INTJ with something that effectively approximates Asperger's even if it technically isn't that. There are sensors among the villains.

Do I see a pattern here? Based on his books alone I'm pecking Benford as an INTJ with Asperger's. I'm actually fairly sure about my estimation.
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Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:41 pm

MariaHobbit wrote:LOL! :rofl:

That is one of the funniest typos ever! :D


:D Why, thanks!

This one is definitely good, one of the tops, I'd say. But I still think the funniest ever was the typo in a religious thread that said something like, "Oh no one believes all that stuff anymore, do they? Everyone knows the Bible has been defunked."

:D :rotfl:

I don't know. My Bible is still pretty funky. ;)


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Postby yovargas » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:06 pm

LalaithUrwen wrote:
MariaHobbit wrote:LOL! :rofl:

That is one of the funniest typos ever! :D


:D Why, thanks!

This one is definitely good, one of the tops, I'd say. But I still think the funniest ever was the typo in a religious thread that said something like, "Oh no one believes all that stuff anymore, do they? Everyone knows the Bible has been defunked."

:D :rotfl:

I don't know. My Bible is still pretty funky. ;)


Lalaith


:rotfl: That is really, really funny, but there was another one that I think I liked even better. Way back in the day in your cloning thread, while Magpie and Wolfie were slily flurting with each other (Magpie was playing as a Southern dame :D) she accidently called the lad Wolfgangbangos. It still makes me laugh when I think about it - a great moment in Manwe-dom. :D:D :rotfl:
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Postby LalaithUrwen » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:16 pm

:rotfl:

Oh yeah, that was a good one!!!! That entire thread was hysterical. :D


Hmmm, now that might make an interesting thread: Funniest Typos/Slip-Ups in Manwedom History.


It'll probably generate more interest than the 'pedia. Or, then again, maybe not. ???


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Postby Denethor » Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:15 pm

Incitatus wrote:And any info about historical INFPs would be interesting too. I already know the obvious ones, like Joan of Arc, Homer, possibly Jesus, I'm interested in your own thoughts.


I think Tolkien might well have been an INFP as well. Lord_M earlier in the thread suggests that he was an INFJ, but given that Tolkien made an art form out of procrastinating, had trouble with deadlines, and apparently had a bad habit of leaving half-drunk cups of tea everywhere, I think he was more of a P than a J. Although I AM tempted to claim him as an INTP - after all, Tolkien's mythos originated out of what was essentially a experiment based on an abstract intellectual interest (Tolkien wanted to provide some pseudo-historical justification for the separate development of Quenya and Sindarin), and unlike the INFP Shakespeare, Tolkien had little interest in exploring detailed characters and "human nature". With a few exceptions, Tolkien's characters take a back seat to the elaborate and systematic secondary world that he created.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:25 am

Denethor wrote:
Incitatus wrote:And any info about historical INFPs would be interesting too. I already know the obvious ones, like Joan of Arc, Homer, possibly Jesus, I'm interested in your own thoughts.


I think Tolkien might well have been an INFP as well. Lord_M earlier in the thread suggests that he was an INFJ, but given that Tolkien made an art form out of procrastinating, had trouble with deadlines, and apparently had a bad habit of leaving half-drunk cups of tea everywhere, I think he was more of a P than a J. Although I AM tempted to claim him as an INTP - after all, Tolkien's mythos originated out of what was essentially a experiment based on an abstract intellectual interest (Tolkien wanted to provide some pseudo-historical justification for the separate development of Quenya and Sindarin), and unlike the INFP Shakespeare, Tolkien had little interest in exploring detailed characters and "human nature". With a few exceptions, Tolkien's characters take a back seat to the elaborate and systematic secondary world that he created.


Ah, but he did stick at one project more or less all his life, was known to be fairly organised in some ways, did organise most of the clubs that he formed himself. He was almost certainly F; he did things and formed opinions based on his own feelings. From descriptions, I think he could have been Fe; and I’d say that the myth-forming suggests Ni. I still stick to INFJ.
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Postby MariaHobbit » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:23 am

Does anyone else have two Artisans in the household? My husband and youngest daughter have been fighting so much that it's breaking my heart. :(

I used to have bad arguments with my Idealist older daughter, but it was nothing compared to the clash of the Artisans.

I also have some speculations regarding tendancy to self-harm in Artisans that would probably push TOS to discuss here. Could you possibly email me LM? I'm wondering if you know of other resources that might be applicable.
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Postby vison » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:33 pm

Lord_M: since you are the guy who is so knowledgable about MBTI, I wonder if I could ask you a big favour?

I need to find out what, if anything, these personality types mean when it comes to dealing with trauma or illness. I'm an INFJ or sometimes an ISFJ or something! Can never really remember.

I have limited time and energy right now to look for stuff and if you could find a minute to just email me with links to a couple of sites I could check?

My email is: sheilaengh at shaw dot ca

Thanx in advance, Lord_M.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:10 pm

In all honesty, I can’t answer either question. The MBTI is like the foundation of a house; it dictates general behaviour patterns but can’t, specifically, on its own, describe everything. Also, the differences between types are not so profound that general advice about masochism or trauma will not apply. I don’t know of any sites or books that would go into the info you two are after. Sorry not to be of much help.
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Postby vison » Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:32 pm

Lord_Morningstar wrote:In all honesty, I can’t answer either question. The MBTI is like the foundation of a house; it dictates general behaviour patterns but can’t, specifically, on its own, describe everything. Also, the differences between types are not so profound that general advice about masochism or trauma will not apply. I don’t know of any sites or books that would go into the info you two are after. Sorry not to be of much help.


Thank you anyway, Lord_M.

*sigh*
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Postby LalaithUrwen » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:08 pm

Did you check on this site?


Personality Page

I don't know how helpful it will be, but it might have something.

:hug:


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Postby Jude » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:12 am

Lord_Morningstar wrote:In all honesty, I can’t answer either question.


But that's no reason you can't drop her an email anyway! :)
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Postby MariaHobbit » Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:00 am

MASOCHISM??? :shock: :shock:

I did NOT imply that, I hope? EWWWWWW!!!!!! No, no, no, no,no!!!! I was talking about the concept of causing yourself pain to acheive emotional control.

But, according to Ted's post in The One Ring forum, we are supposed to:

Ted wrote:Members: Participate in discussions in a manner which wouldn't upset the good professor
or those around you. You are to participate with an ethos of caring and love.


And, I have to admit, I've only known one old gentleman of Professor Tolkien's generation: a delightful old Irishman, an old friend of the family who used to tell my brother and I tales for hours at a time. :) A wonderful man, really. :) But, I would never, never, NEVER bring up a topic so distasteful as the current rash of emotional control by causing one's self harm in his presence. It would just be unthinkable. Practically taboo.

So, as I interpret Ted's decree, that means I can't talk about it here, though I DO think it might be linked to personality type.

Also, if I understand the "Advertising Sucks" sticky right in The One Ring forum, then we can't even link to other websites, as that might be promoting them. We can cut and paste text, but no links. I think.

I found a website that is tangentally what I'm looking for, here's a bit of it:
People who take health risks are willing to take both social and physical risks indicating that they are willing to defy social conventions and risk their physical well-being. Combined with elevated Sensation Seeking needs (Experience Seeking and Disinhibition) their generalised acceptance of risk leads them to try a variety of risky health related behaviours that may be illegal or dangerous (to themselves and to others). They are more likely to be young people and Extraverted, which means that they may be sociable optimists, like parties, take chances and have many friends. They also tend to assess health risks to be lower than other people, and if combined with an easygoing party attitude may lead them to take even greater risks. The motto of a Health risk taker might be "if you want the ultimate high, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price". If the Health risk taker has to be described in one sentence you could say that they tend to be socially disinhibited Sensation Seekers willing to risk their physical health. (This profile accounts for around 40% of the participation in health risk behaviours.)


There are some nifty graphs that I can't show, though. So, email me if you want to see more and I'll send you the link. I also found an interesting page on personality types and narcissism, if anyone would like a link to that website. :)
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Sat May 07, 2005 4:01 am

My ENFP friend is working hard on his own system of personality types which he is calling 'ICE' -> intelligence, consciousness, and ego. I'm not to sure about it yet, but I have to give him a lot of points for creativity and effort.

The real reason that I'm bumping this thread, of course, is that Manwe is slow and this one reminds me of busier (and happier?) times.
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Postby Castanea_d. » Sat May 07, 2005 6:39 am

thank you for bumping this, Lord M. !!!!

I've paid no attention to this thread for many pages, so I don't know if this one has come up: forgive me if it has.

In my workplace (a church) we did the DiSC personality profile last week. It strikes me as a "MBTI Lite," with a 28-question test, seeking to establish a profile in four areas:

DISC Overview

The DISC Profile .... is based on the original work by William Moulton Marston in 1928. What is a Profile? A Profile in training or education terms, means a survey, testing, instrument, assessment, inventory, or learning tool. DISC provides a nonjudgmental language for exploring behavioral issues. It helps people explore behavior across four primary dimensions: Dominance, Influence, Steadiness, Conscientiousness.

Dominance: People who score high in the intensity of the 'D' styles factor are very active in dealing with problems and challenges, while low D scores are people who want to do more research before committing to a decision. High "D" people are described as demanding, forceful, egocentric, strong willed, driving, determined, ambitious, aggressive, and pioneering. Low D scores describe those who are conservative, low keyed, cooperative, calculating, undemanding, cautious, mild, agreeable, modest and peaceful.

Influence: People with High I scores influence others through talking and activity and tend to be emotional. They are described as convincing, magnetic, political, enthusiastic, persuasive, warm, demonstrative, trusting, and optimistic. Those with Low I scores influence more by data and facts, and not with feelings. They are described as reflective, factual, calculating, skeptical, logical, suspicious, matter of fact, pessimistic, and critical.

Steadiness (Submission in William Moulton Marston's time): People with High S styles scores want a steady pace, security, and don't like sudden change. Low S intensity scores are those who like change and variety. High S persons are calm, relaxed, patient, possessive, predictable, deliberate, stable, consistent, and tend to be unemotional and poker faced. People with Low S scores are described as restless, demonstrative, impatient, eager, or even impulsive.

Conscientiousness (Compliance in Marston's time): Persons with High C styles adhere to rules, regulations, and structure. They like to do quality work and do it right the first time. High C people are careful, cautious, exacting, neat, systematic, diplomatic, accurate, tactful. Those with Low C scores challenge the rules and want independence and are described as self-willed, stubborn, opinionated, unsystematic, arbitrary, and careless with details.


For what it is worth, I am an INFJ, and came out on this test moderately low in D, off-the-scale bottom on I, moderately high S, and off the scale top C. Their charts of fifteen "classical profile patterns" peg me as a "perfectionist."
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Postby Kezmoid » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:07 pm

I'm not sure if you're still around or not, Lord M, but if so I'd like to pick your brain on the differences between the N and S types (if not I'll happily pick someone elses brain :)). As I've been thinking about the MBTI recently and specifically about my type (INTJ) and I've realised that both the Sensing and the iNtuition suit me equally well (yet every test I do I consistently come up with an N).

So what I want to know is...

Does this make me less of an INTJ considering that Introverted iNtuition is my dominant function?

Is there anyway I can tell which one is innate and which one is learned? (I think I know, but I want to make sure.)
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:09 pm

Kezmoid wrote:I'm not sure if you're still around or not, Lord M, but if so I'd like to pick your brain on the differences between the N and S types (if not I'll happily pick someone elses brain :)). As I've been thinking about the MBTI recently and specifically about my type (INTJ) and I've realised that both the Sensing and the iNtuition suit me equally well (yet every test I do I consistently come up with an N).


Sensing and iNtuition aren’t necessarily the best terms; what they really mean is concrete and abstract. Sensors look to details, intuitives look to patterns. Sensors prefer to learn using practical examples, intuitives prefer general concepts. Sensors are practical, intutives are imaginative. Sensors like to deal with what they know, intuitives are a little more flexible. Sensors think by noting things and remembering what they need to know, intutitives’ minds tend to wander, following long strings of linked concepts. Sensors tend to get bored on simple or repetitive tasks less easily, intuitives are more likely to be into philosophy, fantasy, or other non-practical fields. It isn’t necessarily an easy difference to explain (unlike I/E and T/F) but it is a very significant difference, and is often easy to notice.

Simply by reading your posts, I think that you are a clear N (don’t ask me how I can tell, I sort of guess intuitively). INTJs are logical and like their ideas to have practical value. However, this is more of a product of their T and J preferences respectively. At heart, they are still Ns; they still think theoretically, can grasp abstract concepts, and think through patterns and connections rather than in concrete details.

Kezmoid wrote:So what I want to know is...

Does this make me less of an INTJ considering that Introverted iNtuition is my dominant function?


To an extent. You can be an INTJ with a weaker N preference; this just means that you don’t use Ni as exclusively as an INTJ with a strong N preference. I am an INTJ with a weaker J preference, although exactly what that translates to in terms of functionality I don’t know.

Kezmoid wrote:Is there anyway I can tell which one is innate and which one is learned? (I think I know, but I want to make sure.)


It is technically impossible for someone to learn another type over the one that they are. People do change, and they can train themselves to act differently, but their real function will always be the most natural.
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Postby Lord_Morningstar » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:49 am

For all our INTPs:

http://intpcentral.com/
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