Gathering Strength: The Wizard's Guild Reborn?

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Gathering Strength: The Wizard's Guild Reborn?

Postby Wandering but not lost » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:25 am

Dear Torcers,

A long time ago there was no actual forum for guilds. The first guild was the Bard's Guild by Erinhue, but soon after (almost simultaneously) an old, ancient, and powerful guild was founded by Nilson the White (now retired) by the name of the Wizard's Guild.

This was the early inception of the guild system here. The two guilds both existed under the auspices of the Prancing Pony. However, with the loss of Nilson, the guild has never been able to maintain itself since then.

I was put in charge of the guild several years ago when it was in disarray. I tried desperately to keep it alive, but alas could do very little. It has always sat poorly with me that the guild was never able to survive.

Given such, a substantial amount of time has passed and I feel that perhaps there is room to start anew on the foundation set by the old wizard's guild. I am creating this thread to begin to brainstorm how people feel that the guild should function and who is interested.

For the guild to be reborn. We will need new members. If you would be interested in joining, please post here and help restart this illustrious heritage!

The old guild worked as such:


There was a rank system something along the following lines: Master Wizard, Wizard, Conjurer, Invoker, Apprentice (or something of that sort). The ranks were determined through quizzes that the guild leaders would post. People would answer questions about LotR and be able to move on.

I feel that system is somewhat outdated. I would like to see what people think would be a neat new system

Things I would like to include (or that sound fun):

1) A guild spellbook. Each member can create a spell. Certain members can be rewarded with the ability to inscribe another spell into the guild book. Spells could be divided by element perhaps?
2) A rank system, but with a different means of determining who gets promoted. It was too difficult to have to make quizzes.
3) An apprentice system. It would be neat to assign "masters" to help out starting wizards.
4) Wizard Staffs. Wizards received an award for reaching the rank of Wizard. I dont have the sig pic icons anymore, but that would be neat to ressurect.
5) Titles: After they pass apprentice, they get a title (such as "Nilson the White" or "Gandalf the Gray" or perhaps something like "X the Ice Maiden, etc.)
6) Perhaps element alignments? Maybe there would be a proficiency test for fire, etc., though I dont know how that would work. Maybe there would be a master wizard in charge of each element who assigns the test. I have no idea what the tests would be like though or how that would be fun as of yet.


Any other ideas? How do you suggest things like advancement, promotion, and the sort work? I havent been present in this forum for a while so I am out of the loop.


Who is interested? Ideas? Eventually once we get a good foundation we will have a grand reopening and formally invite other guilds to join in a big celebration (since I think a celebration would be due!)
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Postby mithrandir111 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:15 am

Sounds intriguing Wandering. I like the sound of the ideas you have posted. I hope you can get this to work wandering. :)
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Postby Gloamglozer » Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:29 pm

Hello. :)

I attempted to join the old guild less than a couple of months ago. But the automatic email thing on the site didn't work. :roll:

Thus I have been lead here by my own free will. Seeing this new guild has rekindled my interest in the idea of a Wizards Guild and that bit of TORC history was an added bonus. :D

Personally I think all of the new ideas are really good and sound. I would suggest something like the Bards Guild uses (Festivals) to move up in rank. Maybe like a duel or test of magical knowledge etc.

The 'Master and Apprentice' scenario would be great. Ever since I became infatuated in Star Wars I have loved that system, for some reason. :D

Titles, Elemental Areas, Staff and the Spellbook I agree with. They are just so.....Wizardy. :P

All in all. Consider me in. :)




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Re: Gathering Strength: The Wizard's Guild Reborn?

Postby PoetOfAutumn » Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:22 am

Wandering but not lost wrote:6) Perhaps element alignments? Maybe there would be a proficiency test for fire, etc., though I dont know how that would work. Maybe there would be a master wizard in charge of each element who assigns the test. I have no idea what the tests would be like though or how that would be fun as of yet.


Just a thought on this topic. What I get out of that question is that you want to test what element someone gravitates towards rather than letting them pick what they like or giving them a specific element to specialize in. Am I right? If I am than I would suggest creating a quiz (test) like those on www.quizilla.com. It would be a universal test for anyone who'd join the guild instead of a test given by each individual master of a particular element. You could have the new recruits take the quiz after the first initiate stage of the ranking system to see what element they will specialize in. The quizes there are actually pretty accurate in my experience with them as long as the one making the quiz knows what he or she is doing. And if you're wondering how you'd give them the test, you could post a link of the specific webpage its found on in the opening post and then have them post their results.

I have a friend who visits quizilla daily and could ask her for help in making the quiz. If you want me to look into it I'd be more than happy to.

Hope that helps.
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:59 am

Awesome! I'm glad that you two are interested. Definitely keep checking in on this thread and giving feedback.


As for testing, I think that sounds great! This inspires me a lot. Here are some of my thoughts from reading a bit of this.:

Individuals will come in with a specific element (a test would be great! THat would give it a sense of an innate magical tendency for the individual). They will then get a master from that element field. Work with them and when the master thinks they are ready, have some sort of way to determine proficiency in that element Once they are deemed "proficient," they obtain the second rank. At which point, they then begin to aquire proficiency in the other elements (once again, maybe some proficiency test? A vote? A trial? Some sort of posting exercise?) by soliciting help from other spell casters.

After a basic proficiency is shown in every element, they get another rank. At this point, they get to create a spell in the spell book.

From here on, the conjurer (3rd rank) must determine what they want to specialize in as a wizard. The conjurer must chose one element of mastery and has the option of choosing a non-elemental magic as a specialization. This is the stage where in non-elemental magics might become possible, such as time, space, life, prophecy, etc.

In this stage, I'm trying to think of a way to get to the next rank of Wizard....


Once a wizard, they are given a staff and given the option to write another spell into the guild spellbook.


From Wizard to Master Wizard, the emphasis then is on complete perfection of your craft. This is done through the tutelage of apprentice and invoker wizards. After they have demonstrated a lot of activity and mentorship of up and coming wizards, the promotion to Master Wizard is done a vote of the council.



What does that sound like as a rough system?

Any advice on how to determine "proficincies?" and "Mastery" etc? I think this is where the Tolkien trivia stuff was useful, except its too much work for me to do....




How do other guilds work out promotions and such?
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Postby Gloamglozer » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:00 pm

That al sounds really good. :)

Let me think. Other guilds normally use methods which best suit them. Usually it could be a duel or a festival or permission granted by a council. It could be anything.

To attain 'Mastery' what if you have to prove that you have mastered that particular area of magic. Maybe through 'Trials' (Star Wars yet again :D) which consist of a test of knowledge and ability. On the boards both of these could be done just through how good a piece of writing is. After the 'Trials' the council then see whether the Wizard should be granted the rank of Master.

What do you think?




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Postby PoetOfAutumn » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:39 pm

The rough system sounds good.

And I think that Gloam could be on to something with the "Trials" scenario. I, too, am stuck on the Star Wars thing. :) (Correct me if I'm totally wrong in the steps of this)...After they have taken the test (however you want to go about that) to determine what area of magic they are proficient in they could do the trial in a RP style that has questions of whatever you want to make them (LOTR, Wizard Lore, ect.). You could create an "Arcane University" (such as in the Xbox 360 game: Oblivion) thread in the Prancing Pony. Say the person is proficient in the element of Earth. The Master of Earth would then go to the Pony, as well as the initiate(s)(if you'd want more than one doing the trail at the same time) or apprentice(s), and RP together the trial that would take place. In the trial you could then have questions asked in whatever you want to test the person(s) on. The Bards guild does something similar with their festivals and it would also let you bring in something from the past thread with the asking of questions.

Agian, here's something you can take or leave. I hope it sparks some ideas.

I think I might be interested in joining, if that's alright?

Edit: Fixed some grammar and spelling.
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:35 pm

That sounds like a great idea.

So perhaps we could start an RPG thread and have trials going on there. People can post about their education and such as well and work with their masters.

To advance, it will be done in character and with the assistance of the master in the form of a trial.

I like the idea of doing competitions maybe as well. The guild did have some form of a competition setup where people would randomly guess numbers to determine the winner and then there would be postings regarding the battle.
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Postby Gloamglozer » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:34 am

I think this is moving on. :D

So. A thread in the Pony where all learning and trials take place. Also there'll be competitions and duels between the members of the guild.

By the way. A council will run the guild won't it, not a Grand High Mage or someone? :D



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Postby Ulfric » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:11 am

This sounds amazing.
I am excited to see how it develops, and possibly throw in a few ideas as well.

: )
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:59 pm

Yeah, I think a council is definitely best especially since I have a tendancy to come and go at times. As well, I dont have the time to run things alone forever.


So here is what I have so far.


The guild will have two threads. One will be an OOC official guild thread in the Alliances and Guild forum. The other will be the Arcane University thread in the Prancing Pony.

The guild will have a rank structure as such. What should the ranks be called? These are just my tentative suggestions

Ranking Structure:

Rank 1. Apprentice:

Will take a test upon entry to see which element they have an initial proficiency in. From that, they will pick a master who specializes in that element. A master must be Wizard rank or above.

To become an Invoker, an Apprentice must work with their master for at least a short period (undecided as of yet). The master then gets the chance to recommend them for advancement. Upon recommendation, they will have a trial to see if they can prove proficiency in their starting element.

Rank 2. Invoker:

The rank of Invoker demonstrates the aquirement of a basic proficiency in magic. This is the most common rank amongst wizards, given that achieving proficiency in every rank can take some wizards a lifetime of study.

In order to advance, the Invoker must gain proficiency in every element in order to advance to Conjurer. To do this, the Invoker must work with their master wizard to gain the help of other wizards who will be willing to test and train them them for proficiency in the other elements.

Upon recommendation from a Master Wizard, the invoker may test for a new element. This process is completed until every element has a demonstrated proficiency. At this point, the Invoker advances.

Rank 3. Conjurer:

The Conjurer demonstrates a fundamental knowledge of the magic world. They are the equivalent of the college graduate, brimming with an extensive knowledge of magic and an ample mastery of its forces.

Upon advancing to the rank of Conjurer, the individual is allowed inscribe one spell into the guild spellbook. This need not happen immediately, as the Conjurer may want to be careful in considering what spells they would desire to affix their name to. The conjurer should choose a spell that is either grounded in the elements, or attached to their desired specialization (see below) so as to create a spell which is grounded in their expertise and sufficiently reliable.

From this point on, having gained a sufficient knowledge of the basic fundamentals of spellcasting, the Conjurer must choose wherein they want to focus their study. This is where the Conjurer must determine their specialization. A specialization need not rely on the elements, because at this point the Conjurer is sufficiently capable to learn and master advance spellcrafting which exceeds the base compositions of nature.

For those with greater aspirations to advance, the conjurer must demonstrate a masterful knowledge of this specialization. This will be done through several demonstrations. The Conjurer must on certain occasions give instructional lectures and demonstrations of their specialization. After they have shown a sufficient academic and demonstrational mastery of their craft, they will be recommended by their Master or by a consensus of the Wizard Council to demosntrate a combative knowledge of their specialization. This is done through engaging in duels to prove their mastery. Upon successfully winning a determined number of duels, relying mostly on their specialization, they will be allowed to obtain the enviable title of Wizard.

Rank 4. Wizard:

Wizards are masters of magic. They are the pinnacle level of craftmanship. Upon obtaining the rank of Wizard, the Wizard will be granted a Wizard's staff. The Wizard's staff is a gift from their original Master, wherein the former apprentice will work with their master to determine what enchantments and name should be bestowed upon the staff. While the apprentice may have say in what they would like the staff to be like, the staff is ultimately the gift and the work of the master.

Finally, the Wizard will also work with their Master to determine an appropriate title. The Wizard will be formally conferred the title (sometimes a color, sometimes a trait, etc. So and So the Gray, for example) in an official ceremony to be held several times throughout the year.

At this stage, the Wizard is free to learn whatever they choose. They are encouraged to develop multiple specializations (they may even choose to do lectures etc. and teach classes if they would like). The Wizard is also allowed, through the course of their further study, to create another spell for the guild spellbook. Since the Wizard is expected to be a master of all magic, their spell need not be limited to their specialization at the conjurer level or any specific element but can be drawn on from the field of all magic.

If a Wizard requires to advance, they must demonstrate an absolute mastery of one element through the tutelage of apprentices. Generally this element is the same element that they originally demonstrated proficiency with, but can be any element that they feel an immediate affinity towards.

Once the Wizard has demonstrated exceptional instruction to several students, and contributed a clever variety of tests into the Guild, they may be nominated for the promotion to Master Wizard. The Council will vote on that matter and select one Master Wizard promotion maximum every time that the official "Tournament of Promotions" occurs. (better title to be determined).

Rank 5. Master Wizard:
This is the absolute level of mastery. The Master Wizard is complete and absolute in their level of understanding and control over all things arcane. They exist on a bridge of pure synthesis with energy itself, able to channel immeasurable amounts of magic through their being.

At this stage, there is no more advancement. Who can advance more than sheer mastery? Though the Master Wizard is ever studious, the focus of their energies at this stage generally falls onto maintaining the survival and proclivity of their art. Thus, the Master Wizard will assist with the training of incoming Wizards as well as manage all guild matters.

The Master Wizards compose the Magic Council which governs guild matters. From this council is chosen an Arch-Mage, who will serve as the tie-breaker and the spokesperson of the council. The Arch-Mage will be determined at each "Tournament of Promotions" and will serve one term, unless reappointed.



"Tournament of Promotions"
This is a tournament held every 3 months (is that a good amount?) wherein duels for promotion to Wizard status will be held. At this tournament, the guild will invite spectators from outside the guild to watch and cheer on the competitors. There will be a specific order of competition, wherein guild members will be expected to show up for their battles. These competitions will have a victor determined by a yet to be decided fair method.

As well, at the Tournament of Promotions, one new Master Wizard will be chosen (if the council feels there is an adequate candidate). Furthermore, a new Arch-mage will be elected.

The purpose of the Tournament is to both allow for fair advancement but also to demonstrate the supreme powers of the guild.





Wizard Academy Duels:

These will be done on a trial, practice, and challenge basis with the most significant duels being reserved for the Tournament of Promotions. The system as to determine who wins is yet to be determined. Suggestions for the duels?
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Postby Gloamglozer » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:41 am

Right.

That all looks good. The system of promotion seems to look like it would work quite well. The 3 month period is a good idea as well. It gives people time to get used to a certain rank. :)

At the moment I don't have many suggestions to add to that. But I'm going to have a think and see if, where you have put "Suggestions please", can be filled. :D




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Postby Loopy » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:22 pm

hi Wandering! i like the idea of the trials, and the ranks :)

i think this will work! i´ll be waiting for the thread at the Pony :D
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Postby PoetOfAutumn » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:04 am

The foundation you've laid out for the guild seems to be a sound one. :)

Are you picturing the duels as being fought purely mentally (an unseen will) or physically (fireballs being thrown)? Whichever it is, the duel, I think, should be constructed in a way to where each person has control over the outcome, over how well they do. For instance, I should be able to enter the contest and use my skills (whatever they may be) better than you use yours. Basically, I think think it needs to be a contest that can be manipulated in our physcial world rather than in just the RP itself. I may be way off from what you're thinking; I'm just thowing my thoughts out there.
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:49 am

Ya, it needs to be something in the physical world to determine who wins.

I am thinking that we use something fair.

Well, there is at least a bit of time until then.

Any chance that the quiz might be made soon? I think once that is done, we might be able to start.
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Postby PoetOfAutumn » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:49 pm

I didn't know you wanted me to do the quiz. In that case, I'll have it done as soon as I can.
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Postby bombadil12 » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:08 pm

looks like a great idea. i await tentatively the Grand Opening, as well as the abilities to hone my inherent magical skills :wink:

i think your system is very good! the duels must be figured out though. i like the idea of something physical, putting that into effect though may prove difficult.
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:52 am

Yeah, it might but we'll see I think when we get there how smoothly it runs :-)
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Postby Gloamglozer » Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:43 am

So. I'm guessing that we're basically only waiting for the quiz, then we can start?

Just guessing? :D



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Postby Wandering but not lost » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:55 am

I think so :-)
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Postby Neo_Sith_God » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:20 pm

For years, the Wizard's Guild Hall had remained empty... Darkness crept through the hallways, cobwebs and dust being its only inhabitants... That was how it was left, dark and lonely... Yet, after years of travelling, after years of growing stronger, Ben, the RoamingSquirrelWarrior the Black has returned... Hardened by battles, both external and internal, the years are seen upon his face... He still carries his youthful appearance, but its in the eyes, the pain, the suffering...

Ben pulls off his belts, laying his twin blades on the marble floor... He sets his staff atop the weapons, and walks up to embrace Wandering... My old friend, it is good to see you... It brings tears to my eyes knowing that the Guild is revived... I thought they were all lost in Mordor, on that fateful quest... But, that is in the past, how are you doing, my friend?

Wandering looks down at the squirrelish elf, and smiles upon him... It has been difficult, my friend... Many of our comrades have ended the journey of life here, while others are lost, roaming the wilderness... With your help, we will seek them out... We will find our old friends, and we will find new comrades... The Guild Halls have stood empty for far too long... The Wizards Guild is nothing but a whisper in the wind, a tale of lore, nothing more... The people of Middle Earth have forgotten our name... Not anymore though... The Guild will be strong again, and evil will fear us once more... The few of us who have survived will teach others, and we will learn from our errors... We will grow strong again, stronger than ever... Will you join me in building this Guild back up to where we once were?

Ben smiled as he threw his swords over his shoulder... He picked up his staff and thrust it over his head in victory... The Guild will prosper once again my friend, and our lost comrades will be found... The ones who have passed on will be remembered... But for now, we are all that is left of the old order... But, I am weary from my travels... I shall be heading up to my old quarters now... But, meet me for dinner tonight, and we shall discuss how we can bring this Guild back together...

With that, Ben, the RoamingSquirrelWarrior the Black departs, heading up to his old quarters... Wandering smiles to himself as Ben heads up the stairs, knowing that the Guild will prosper now that he is not the only one of the Old Order of the Wizards Guild... The New Order is here, and they will be the guardians of Middle Earth...
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Postby Neo_Sith_God » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:24 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I hate to post an InChar. Post and an OutChar Post in the same... It is great to see something happening once again, and it is great to see you as well, Wandering... I still have your AIM, so I will hit you up the next time I see you and we can discuss this if you want... I believe that I still have the old icons and everything somewhere... But hey, we can discuss it later... Take it easy man, and to everyone else, Welcome to the Wizards Guild...
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:52 pm

We should set up a quiz, seeing as its been a while since poet volunteered. I dont have time at this moment to do so, but if someone wants to try to, they can post here and I can give them my AIM so we can discuss.
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Postby Neo_Sith_God » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:01 pm

As usual, send the Elvish Squirrel to do a Wizard's work... Do I ever get a break? Wandering, what kind of quiz are you asking for? Are you thinking along the lines of setting some sort of initiation-proficiency quiz, or a challenge or old? Either way, I am free to set it up with whatever outline you can think of... I have a few ideas... Feel free to IM me whenever you are online...

BTW: About the Wizard's Guild website... I am still looking for an appropriate server that suits my needs... Angelfire is making me very upset with their setup, so I am looking for something else... I do have drafts of back when I was originally working on it, the original site, and some new ideas from reading everyone's opinions in this thread... Let me know if you have any more ideas... I will talk to you later, Wandering...
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Postby bombadil12 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:01 am

I anxiously await the opening of this guild.

if you need anything done, dont hesitate to ask, but I have no history with this guild so nothing along those lines
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Postby Gloamglozer » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:46 pm

I'm the same Bombadil. :)

I had no connections with the original guild because it had almost petered out by the time I came onto the boards.

But I am looking forward to the new version. Hopefully, all we need now is the quiz. :D
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:03 pm

I just finished my classes this semester so I have some time to work on trying to setup the guild now.

I'll try to establish a framework for the guild during that time. I'll make a quiz I think first and work from there.

Ultimately, I will probably need to appoint a leader in my absence though once I set it up because grad school keeps me busy! I'm hoping once it starts people will join and it will gain a self-sustaining momentum.
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Postby Nicasam » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:09 pm

I would be interested in joining.
I am apart of both the Bards Guild and The Riders of Rohan Guild.

It would be a joy to see the wizards guild resurrected again.
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Postby Amonfur » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:28 pm

I am also interested in this guild. It sounds very neat and I would like to be a part of it if I could. I used to be a part of The Council of Elves and Elf Friends but it has long been forgotten. *oh well I guess*

Hopefully I will be able to be a part of this with you all.
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Postby Wandering but not lost » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:30 am

I have to confess that I do not have time for this lately... Grad school is too much for me... I thought maybe I could but I found out that I am too swamped...

If anyone is interested (I think that Ben might be) to put together the refounding, email me at taranwandering@yahoo.com I can try to help a bit, but I have had little free time lately... I'm only able to post right now because work is slow right now in the office (I also work part time).
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