Elmtree
Not all those who wander aren't lost
Alliance: The Shire
Last Visited: 14 Nov 2009
Joined: 11 Apr 2000
Posts: 5507
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:50 am |
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LOL lee (or eel).
nrogara sounds like someone's screenname.
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"The misconception about children's fiction is that it's lightweight or fluffy. It's about really big and important things. It's adults who like light and fluffy. Everything is big and important to a child, so their stories are about big and important events." - Steven Moffat |
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Dunthule
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Dol Amroth
Last Visited: 18 Oct 2009
Joined: 22 Aug 2000
Posts: 3127
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eomer32
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Rohan
Last Visited: 13 Nov 2009
Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 701
Location: Pittsburgh PA
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:27 pm |
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(Feels like old times...  )
I understand Bard is a worthy character in his own right and I also think TH should stand on it's own, HOWEVAH, I was simply stating that given the other potential "cameo's" we may or may not see, the idea of Aragorn "being" Bard isn't THE most ridiculous.
(Jeez, can't wait til we get closer to this thing becoming reality, the fireworks will REALLY begin then! {and way better than anything Gandalf could've possibly conjured! [Oh wait, I've pissed off the "Gandalf-philes" now, haven't I?  ] } )
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AlatarVinyamar
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Angband
Last Visited: 18 Nov 2009
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 876
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:12 am |
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Or is that Gandalphiles?
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merlyn
Shield Bearer
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 352
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Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:36 am |
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I hope that they won't equate Bard with Aragorn, but it does sound like the kind of thing that Peter Jackson might want to do, given that he apparently viewed Aragorn as the true lead of "The Lord of the Rings".
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Lee~
ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY iPHONE
Alliance: Fangorn
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 12 Jan 2002
Posts: 1898
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frodo_gives_hope
Petitioner to the Council
Alliance: None
Last Visited: 18 Oct 2009
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Ohio
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:00 am |
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And while we're talking about funny, someone or other advanced the idea of two orcs, pusing a barrow with a giant spinning eyeball in it, running away from Mirkwood - and toward Mordor - as a way of depicting that Sauron has left the forrest!
I logged in and quit lurking just to say that now I have to clean coffee off of my pants.
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Tookish_Traveler
The Amoeba of Amelioration
Alliance: Fangorn
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 08 Apr 2002
Posts: 15771
Location: MoMin' to misbehave....
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:26 am |
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At least it's only coffee. Could've been worse.....
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For lack of a better sig at the moment...one of my favorites... the Brown Creeper.
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I'm keeping this link just because it's too darn good...
Star Trek meets Monty Python
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Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves for they will never cease to be amused.
~ Anonymous
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My
Project 52
(more or less)..... |
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Steerpike
Ranger of the North
Alliance: The Shire
Last Visited: 09 Oct 2009
Joined: 04 Aug 2000
Posts: 2615
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ngaur
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Fangorn
Last Visited: 11 Nov 2009
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 3078
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Posted: Sun Nov 1, 2009 3:31 am |
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It seems they will include Gandalf going to Dol Guldur, and perhaps the white counsil attacks on Dol Guldur too. If PJ puts Aragorn in the movie it will be there.
What worries me is that from what I could understand of the interview they are talking both about having the movie focus on a little hobbits adventure in a large world and about following Gandalf and linking with the trilogy.
Those two approaches don't seem like they would mix and match.
But Bard, he's not problem. It would be easy to have Smaug raid the lake town early in the movie and then you'd get to know Bard. Though at the same time you would reveal Smaug.
Don't know. They'll find a way, but Bard won't be Aragorn and Aragorn won't be Bard.
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JudyA
Mariner
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 7028
Location: Sydneeeeeeeeeeeeeey
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Posted: Sun Nov 1, 2009 7:51 pm |
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ngaur said:
It seems they will include Gandalf going to Dol Guldur, and perhaps the white counsil attacks on Dol Guldur too. If PJ puts Aragorn in the movie it will be there.
Completely understand the reason for the inclusion of the attack on Dol Guldur. It's a dramatic sequence, it happened, and it happened at that time. Gives a reason to include Saruman as well as Galadriel - and even Radagast, at a pinch! 
But Aragorn at Dol Guldur??!?! Whyeeeeeeeee would they do that?  Dammit, Aragorn was in short pants when Bilbo's adventure happened!! If Aragorn appears at all it should be as a child or teenager in Rivendell under the name Estel, and Viggo (much as I value his characterisation) should disappear altogether...
In addition, as I mentioned on some other thread in this general vicinity, Aragorn was brought up in secret to hide his lineage and keep him safe until the time was ripe for him to reveal himself (which he doesn't do until a long way into LotR).
So why the hell would he - even if he WAS an adult at the time, which he wasn't - go waltzing into Dul Guldur? May as well have handed his return address to Sauron et al and asked them to pay a visit.
If that IS what PJ does I will be most seriously annoyed.
*grumps*
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Voronwe_the_Faithful
Ranger of the North
Alliance: House of Fingolfin
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 26 Dec 2002
Posts: 4465
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Posted: Sun Nov 1, 2009 8:56 pm |
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Don't worry, Judy, that was simply ngaur speculating. There is absolutely no indication that PJ/GdT are considering having Aragorn be a part of the Dol Guldur sequence, and every reason to believe that they are not considering that.
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JudyA
Mariner
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 7028
Location: Sydneeeeeeeeeeeeeey
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Posted: Sun Nov 1, 2009 11:20 pm |
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That's good to hear
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ngaur
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Fangorn
Last Visited: 11 Nov 2009
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 3078
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Posted: Mon Nov 2, 2009 4:32 am |
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I think I wouldn't even mind seeing Aragorn at Dol Guldur. Wouldn't even mind seeing Viggo in the role. It is a long time since I equated the movies with the books, and while I can't remeber if Aragorns age was ever revealed in the movies I would no longer be upset if a twenty something Aragorn did appear.
What would upset me a little is if he appears in Dale, or any of the other book canon material.
Though I wouldn't put him in myself.
In any case as Voronwe said it's all speculation.
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JudyA
Mariner
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 7028
Location: Sydneeeeeeeeeeeeeey
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Posted: Mon Nov 2, 2009 2:23 pm |
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Re Aragorn's age, in TTT extended edition he tells Eowyn he is 87 when she quizzes him about Theoden having told her Aragorn rode into battle with his father Thengel.
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Gungnir
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Saruman
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 14 Nov 2000
Posts: 4677
Location: Isle of Man
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JudyA
Mariner
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 7028
Location: Sydneeeeeeeeeeeeeey
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Posted: Mon Nov 2, 2009 8:20 pm |
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lol...
Think it's impossible to read the minds of the writers at this point. Let's just hope they don't do anything too stupid...
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Gandalf'sMother
Mariner
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 19 Sep 2000
Posts: 7924
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Last edited by Gandalf'sMother on Tue Nov 3, 2009 9:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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azadir
Citizen of Imladris
Alliance: House of Beren
Last Visited: 14 Nov 2009
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 67
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Posted: Tue Nov 3, 2009 7:31 am |
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mind you - bringing back viggo mortensen doesn't necessarily mean that they are bringing back Aragorn....
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Unwin
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Rohan
Last Visited: 10 Nov 2009
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 853
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Posted: Tue Nov 3, 2009 4:45 pm |
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I think we've discussed this before. It would be really weird and confusing to have someone who looks a lot like Aragorn to be playing someone else. Unless they want to insert some kind of Bard-Aragorn kinship angle. Ugghhh...
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JudyA
Mariner
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 16 May 2001
Posts: 7028
Location: Sydneeeeeeeeeeeeeey
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Posted: Wed Nov 4, 2009 12:38 am |
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The only other vaguely rational thing they could do with Viggo would be to get him to play Arathorn. But then he died when Aragorn was tiny so even that's stuffed as far as real timelines go.
Not that this has ever bothered the scriptwriters tremendously much 
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The_Red_Avenger
Shield Bearer
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 214
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:24 am |
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There was a really important point that PJ mentioned when the Q & A was done in that these are GDT's movies and if there is a disagreement on how things should be done then the director (that's GDT) has the final word. So all this lets laud GDT and blame PJ for things that haven't happened yet is a bit churlish. As much as I hate to say it - the PJ that made the sublime Heavenley Creatures is the same one that did the trilogy - in much the same way that the GDT who made the sublime Pans Labyrinth is also the same one that is going to do The Hobbit. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be great films now that GDT is the director.
This also doesn't mean that everything that goes right with the film is the genius of GDT and everything that goes wrong or doesn't fit your mental image is all PJ's fault. It is a team effort and that includes GDT along with PJ, Fran and Phillipa.
I think some of the pre-conceived accusations here that everything wrong is PJ and everything right is because of GDT is unfair. Sure PJ made mistakes in the Trilogy - he admits i himself. There are things he would have done different.
It seems people are already looking for their scapegoat when things go wrong. These are GDT's movies - the buck stops with him.
I just hope he realises the weight of expectation. But I am an eternal optimist and I am looking forward to it.
...
RA
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AlatarVinyamar
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Angband
Last Visited: 18 Nov 2009
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 876
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:22 am |
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Well said RA. 
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azadir
Citizen of Imladris
Alliance: House of Beren
Last Visited: 14 Nov 2009
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 67
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Gandalf'sMother
Mariner
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 19 Sep 2000
Posts: 7924
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 8:00 am |
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The_Red_Avenger said:
There was a really important point that PJ mentioned when the Q & A was done in that these are GDT's movies and if there is a disagreement on how things should be done then the director (that's GDT) has the final word. So all this lets laud GDT and blame PJ for things that haven't happened yet is a bit churlish. As much as I hate to say it - the PJ that made the sublime Heavenley Creatures is the same one that did the trilogy - in much the same way that the GDT who made the sublime Pans Labyrinth is also the same one that is going to do The Hobbit. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to be great films now that GDT is the director.
This also doesn't mean that everything that goes right with the film is the genius of GDT and everything that goes wrong or doesn't fit your mental image is all PJ's fault. It is a team effort and that includes GDT along with PJ, Fran and Phillipa.
I think some of the pre-conceived accusations here that everything wrong is PJ and everything right is because of GDT is unfair. Sure PJ made mistakes in the Trilogy - he admits i himself. There are things he would have done different.
It seems people are already looking for their scapegoat when things go wrong. These are GDT's movies - the buck stops with him.
I just hope he realises the weight of expectation. But I am an eternal optimist and I am looking forward to it.
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RA
You completely miss the point of what most people are saying. You also contradict yourself. You say:
Quote:
It is a team effort
and then:
Quote:
These are GDT's movies - the buck stops with him.
Well, which is it? I would say both. The buck stops with GDT and PJ - as PJ is the Producer. Producers can have an enormous influence on a film. And it is silly to believe that GDT can defy PJ at every turn.
My problem is the following:
Quote:
It is a team effort
That is what many who are not comfortable with the writing and directing chops of PJ are worried about. Team efforts can occasionally produce great stuff, but in the arts, more often than not, they result in mediocrity. Especially if some of the team members are already mediocre (as I believe PJ, Fran and Philipp are).
Many of us believe that GDT is a better talent than PJ and should therefore be left to his own devices. Maybe that would result in a colossal failure anyway, but at least it wouldn't be a film made in a PJ and Co. dominated committee.
I wish these films could stand on their own completely, both visually and narratively. Start from scratch, IMO. Instead, we'll just be revisiting PJ's world with a GDT twist.
-GM
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ngaur
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Fangorn
Last Visited: 11 Nov 2009
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 3078
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The_Red_Avenger
Shield Bearer
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 09 Feb 2001
Posts: 214
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:03 am |
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Quote:
You completely miss the point of what most people are saying
The following quotes suggest otherwise.
Quote:
I hope that they won't equate Bard with Aragorn, but it does sound
like the kind of thing that Peter Jackson might want to do
, given that he apparently viewed Aragorn as the true lead of "The Lord of the Ring"
Quote:
But Aragorn at Dol Guldur??!?! Whyeeeeeeeee would they do that? Dammit, Aragorn was in short pants when Bilbo's adventure happened!! If Aragorn appears at all it should be as a child or teenager in Rivendell under the name Estel, and Viggo (much as I value his characterisation) should disappear altogether...
In addition, as I mentioned on some other thread in this general vicinity, Aragorn was brought up in secret to hide his lineage and keep him safe until the time was ripe for him to reveal himself (which he doesn't do until a long way into LotR).
So why the hell would he - even if he WAS an adult at the time, which he wasn't - go waltzing into Dul Guldur? May as well have handed his return address to Sauron et al and asked them to pay a visit.
If that IS what PJ does I will be most seriously annoyed.
Quote:
Yeah, but...but...I bet PJ has thought about it!
That last one from your good self.
Also I do not contradict myself by saying the buck stops with GDT and then saying its a team game. It's a team game because everybody has equal input and the right decisions and wrong decisions can be be made by any of the four - its just that GDT has the final say in the grand scheme of things. PJ although on the writing team is a producer and thats means he keeps things going in making the movie. All the creative "final says" will be on GDT's shoulders. If GDT agrees that something PJ has suggested is right although we may think its wrong - the blame lies on GDT as he could easily just have ignored him. Have you ever been in a job where you need to be in a team and your idea goes wrong? Who's to blame? The team or the team manager? It's the manager. He gets the flak. As its ultimately his decision in the end and PJ has said the Director is in charge. By your rationale - then Barrie Osborne and Mark Ordesky would be responsible for Aragorn going over the cliff. But you don't - you blame PJ for that decision if you didn't like it. Quite right - he's the director.
The financial buck may stop with PJ - but the creative one stops with GDT.
Quote:
I wish these films could stand on their own completely, both visually and narratively. Start from scratch, IMO. Instead, we'll just be revisiting PJ's world with a GDT twist.
You must really hate the films that much.
It has to have some likeness - you can't just go and redesign everything - if the films are to follow on as GDT intends (well they are "before" but you get my point)
So who are you going to blame if the movies don't live up to your expectations? I think we already know the answer to that one.
...
RA
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Gungnir
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Saruman
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 14 Nov 2000
Posts: 4677
Location: Isle of Man
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:11 am |
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Hey TRA - don't you know this is a group PJ-Bashing session? No dissenters allowed. If you can't create your own straw-man argument to use against PJ then you'll have a hard time.
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The_Red_Avenger
Shield Bearer
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:24 am |
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Ah, I'm used to it (check out the "join" date"). My point on here though is not to defend PJ for the trilogy (I know better than that on TORC) - it's more the fact that people are already blaming him for ideas they think he might have about The Hobbit - when he is not the Director - Del Toro is. If something goes wrong they'll blame PJ regardless. That seems unfair to me.
Heck, he's already getting blamed for things that haven't even come to light yet.
...
RA
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Gandalf'sMother
Mariner
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 20 Nov 2009
Joined: 19 Sep 2000
Posts: 7924
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:03 am |
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[quote="The_Red_Avenger"]
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, but...but...I bet PJ has thought about it!
That last one from your good self.
And obviously tongue-in-cheek...
Quote:
Have you ever been in a job where you need to be in a team and your idea goes wrong? Who's to blame? The team or the team manager? It's the manager. He gets the flak. As its ultimately his decision in the end and PJ has said the Director is in charge. By your rationale - then Barrie Osborne and Mark Ordesky would be responsible for Aragorn going over the cliff. But you don't - you blame PJ for that decision if you didn't like it. Quite right - he's the director.
The financial buck may stop with PJ - but the creative one stops with GDT.
Two things.
One, Barrie Osborn was not involved in drafting the scripts. PJ, Fran and Philippa are deeply involved. Therefore, their influence will be profound. It is ridiculous to think that GDT actually has the power to reject all of the ideas emanating from PJ, Fran and Philippa. Perhaps he has such power in theory, as the director, but theory is very far from reality.
Two, all films are a team effort, very much like a normal office environment. However, in most cases, the leadership develops a mission and vision of its own. Only after that is developed does the broader team come in to implement it. In this case, PJ, Fran and Philippa are influencing the creative process from the very start. They are not just being managed by GDT. They are developing the plan, that must then be implemented and managed. Those are very different things. I think in many work environments, putting a lot of heads together to develop the vision and strategy is a very positive thing. But in film, and with the arts in general, I believe it is important for it all to start with the vision of one creative mind. Compromises should only come later, when physical realities require changes.
-GM
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And I really, really don't want Aragorn muscling in and stealing his thunder. 
Give Dunthule a Premiere Membership!
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