Democrats, dost thou know where thou art?

Manwë was known for many things, but wisdom and power are two that lead the rest of his attributes. Join the Councils and discuss the more weighty matters of Tolkien Fandom.

Postby Dave_LF » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:08 am

shiftenter wrote:Its just a very ironic position they find themselves in is all I am saying.


Or it would be, if they could detect irony. 2nd amemdment fundamentalists who want to throw out the 14th? People who simultaneously believe that Obama is a radical Christian and a radical Muslim? Tax protests using public property? Consistency in your theory of governance is not that important when the whole thing boils down to "gimme, and screw you".
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Postby shiftenter » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:09 am

good point Dave.
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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:44 pm

ILvEowyn wrote:
Charlie Rangel, Maxine Waters, Michelle Antoinette...the news stories about corrupt and incompetent Democrats have become as commonplace as clouds.


The Democrats are cleaning their house. Call me when the GOP actually tries to do something about Ensign or Vitter or Sanford. If you want to just exchange names of corrupt people on each side, I can go shot for shot with you, so to speak.


Isn't there a thread about Republican corruptions? I'd be happy to discuss their failings there, just as I'm happy to discuss Democrat failings here. I'd just like to have as little tu quoque in each of the two threads as possible.
Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Xhen » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:53 pm

The Democrats are cleaning their house. Call me when the GOP actually tries to do something about Ensign or Vitter or Sanford. If you want to just exchange names of corrupt people on each side, I can go shot for shot with you, so to speak.


Do what? They had extramarital affairs. That's an issue for voters to take into account when they vote. Or are you suggesting that politicians should now be charged with ethics violations for having affairs? Trust me, that's a road that Democrats most definitely don't want to go down.
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Postby shiftenter » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:01 pm

from CG who asks

Isn't there a threat about Republican corruptions?


The Republicans have done a whole lot more than issue a threat about corruption. They have followed through and produced corruption in grand style. Or how soon have we forgotten?
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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:15 pm

You've forgotten about the other thread? But you've recently posted in it!
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Postby shiftenter » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:17 pm

Thread????? You were talking about threats. Good thing you corrected your error with an edit some 12 minutes after I posted. No harm - mistakes are part of the human condition. :wink:
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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:46 pm

I also used the word "thread" later in that same post correctly, and used "here" and "there" in that post, so there is no excuse for any misunderstanding of my intention other than deliberately choosing to do so in spite of the clear meaning.
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Postby shiftenter » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:21 pm

Let me see if I got this right.

You write the word THREAT and I respond to exactly what you wrote.
You edit it after I respond to it.
I went as far as to tell you there was no harm done and post a cute smilie face.
You then accuse me of intentionally misunderstanding you in spite of your own error.

And some people here think I go out of my way to pick fights with you!!!!! Amazing. Just amazing.
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Postby Bombadillo » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:26 am

Howard Dean is an idiot and is rapidly turning into the Democratic version of Chairman Steele when it comes to adversely affecting his own party.

In an appearance on CNN's State of the Union over the weekend, former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean took a shot at the Obama administration for what he saw as its inability to maneuver in a polarized political climate.

"I think the people around the president have really misjudged what goes on elsewhere in the country other than Washington, D.C.," explained Dean. "I don't think this is true of the president, but I do think his people, his political people ought to go out and spend some time outside Washington once in a while."

Because Howard is really "in touch" with Mr. and Mrs. Main Street? If one calls following Matt Drudge and Rasmussen being "in touch" whilst trying to sabotage the Dems in November through concern trolling I guess he really does have his stethiscope on the pulse of Real 'Muricans (TM).
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Postby ILvEowyn » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:22 pm

Xhen wrote:
The Democrats are cleaning their house. Call me when the GOP actually tries to do something about Ensign or Vitter or Sanford. If you want to just exchange names of corrupt people on each side, I can go shot for shot with you, so to speak.


Do what? They had extramarital affairs. That's an issue for voters to take into account when they vote. Or are you suggesting that politicians should now be charged with ethics violations for having affairs? Trust me, that's a road that Democrats most definitely don't want to go down.


Ok well, Vitter hired a prostitute, which is a crime. Do you think Eliot Spitzer got a raw deal? Sanford abandoned his state and flew down to Brazil to carry on his affair on taxpayer money, which is an ethics violation if not a crime. And Ensign bribed his mistress' family and got her husband (or was it brother?) a job to keep them quiet, which again is an ethics violation if not a crime. These were not mere affairs.
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Postby TheEllipticalDisillusion » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:28 am

Spitzer also paid for those hookers on the taxpayers dime (IIRC).
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Postby shiftenter » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:02 am

from TED

Spitzer also paid for those hookers on the taxpayers dime


It looks like this is something that is alleged and suspected but is somewhat a grey area.


from Wikipedia under the entry ELLIOT SPITZER

On July 16, 2008, The New York Times made public that Spitzer used campaign funds to pay for two Mayflower Hotel bookings, $411.06 apiece, where he was suspected to have met with prostitutes. While it remains unclear if Spitzer actually stayed in the hotel on the nights he booked, The Times has stated that Spitzer met with prostitutes in early 2008. Spitzer declined to comment on the issue.[87]
According to an article published on July 23, 2008 in The New York Times, the state ethics committee is continuing their investigation into his administration's handling of travel records. If found guilty of wrongdoing, he faces a maximum $10,000 fine. The Times also reported that federal investigators are still debating on whether or not to bring about criminal charges against Spitzer for his involvement in the prostitution scandal. Spitzer has declined to comment on the recent developments.[88]
In November 2008, prosecutors in charge of the case announced that Spitzer would not face criminal charges for his involvement in the sex ring citing they found no evidence of misuse of public funds and therefore pressing charges would not serve the public interest.
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Postby TheEllipticalDisillusion » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:56 am

To be fair, I did write: IIRC (if I recall correctly). It's also possible that I don't recall things correctly at all times.
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Postby shiftenter » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:02 am

we all have that problem TED. Myself included. Thank heaven for Wikipedia. :wink:
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Postby basil » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:55 pm

This and the next mirrors my feelings on the matter:

Gibbs, It’s Not About The “Professional Left”; You’re Losing Democrats
By: Rayne Thursday August 12, 2010 3:00 pm


Gibbs. Dude.

Really. You need to quit talking smack, sit up and pay attention. You lost my vote last week and it won’t be the first time, either.

You see, Michigan had its primary last week, where the biggest fight on the ballot is for the governor’s office. The voters in this state had a choice between a large field of mostly social conservative wingnuts on the right, and two DINOs on the left — and from this spread voters were supposed to pick someone who would dig this state out of the depression it’s been in for years.

Oh, I voted — for all the nonpartisan races like judgeships and county commissioners. I voted for ballot initiatives. I even voted for myself as precinct delegate.

But I didn’t vote for either Democratic gubernatorial candidate because they are both dirtbag DINOs, just slightly different flavors of the same crap, the kind of over-promising spin masters of which we have too many in DC. The one who needs a haircut has a hideous perspective on women’s reproductive rights, and the other one has a very ugly temper and uglier mouth unsuited to the top job in the state. Don’t get me started on the fibs they’ve told along the duration of their careers and during their primary campaigns.

This is the best we can do? And one of these two campaigns has been trying to claim the approval of the White House for 6-plus months, suggesting this is the best the administration and the Democratic National Committee can muster.

Come November, I’m absolutely not voting for a Democratic gubernatorial candidate. I may even commit heresy as a Democratic precinct delegate and split my ticket; my vote is very much a toss between a Republican moderate or None-Of-The-Above.

Before you just roll your eyes and hit the back button, you need to know I’m not merely the base or the "professional left." I’m an elected party official, a chair of a Democratic committee at local level. I’m a co-founder of a local Democratic organization and I’ve spent days-weeks-months of time and a lot of resources on behalf of Democratic candidates.

In short, I AM the Democratic Party and I am finding it impossible to vote for a Democrat. . . .


And you and your boss and his chief of staff are a very big part of the reason why I cannot simply swallow my anger and frustration and fill in the black mark to vote "Democrat – Straight Ticket."

Because if I vote for another Democratic candidate who cannot and will not fulfill the Democratic platform (have you read it lately?), if I vote for another candidate who I am certain will betray my trust by compromising before any negotiation with the opposition begins, I will merely be encouraging and enabling more of the same behavior. I would not be living up to my own values and ethics; I’d be letting down others who count on me to do the right thing, like my family and friends.


And unlike the current administration, I cannot and will not compromise my values.

I suspect the people who also voted for me expect that of me.

{END OF QUOTE}

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Last edited by basil on Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby basil » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:56 pm

Gallup Data Shows Obama Approval Rating Drops Among Younger Voters; Why?
By: Rayne Wednesday August 18, 2010 9:00 am

See this nifty chart? Long-time FDL community member ValleyGirl sent it to me last night after she spent considerable time and effort pulling Gallup’s presidential approval rating data together to create it.

The intriguing bit is right there in the most recent data on the 19-to-30 year-old voters. There’s a very sharp drop, not like anything else in the preceding data. Could it be just an anomaly? Perhaps another couple weeks of data will tell us if this is just an outlier.

{Go to the link for the chart}

I asked my 16-year-old what she thought about the graph; was there something in particular that she thought might explain such a drop?

She said she felt she didn’t know enough about current events to have an opinion on this. Okay, honest response. (Obviously Mom needs to incentivize reading about current affairs for the rest of the summer.)

But this past week, after BP’s Macondo well had been “killed” and government flacks said that most of the oil in the gulf was gone, she’d told me, “That’s bull[bleep].”

I was taken aback at the time; I expect this kind of bluntness and vulgar terminology from my younger child (who talks a little too much like his mother), but not from my more cautious and reticent 16-year-old. She elaborated, though, saying, “There’s no way that all that oil could simply disappear.”

Not a chance; somebody was lying, according my teenaged science major planning on going into pathology. . . . .

So I asked my 12-year-old what he thought. He’s a solid lefty, voted for Obama in his school’s mock election while the majority of his classmates voted for McCain, reflecting their parents’ and this community’s conservatism.

He told me he thought it was about jobs.

Wow. I didn’t expect that one. He’s four years away from holding a job of his own and he thinks the dip is related to jobs? I asked him to elaborate; what did he mean by “jobs” as a reason why this age group would have a less favorable opinion of the president.

The kid said that he thought this age group was the one during which people got first jobs and really began to work, that they were out of school and were working for a living.

My eyebrows must have been raised, because he continued. “Mom, it’s been over a year, and nothing’s changed. There still aren’t enough jobs out there.”

He didn’t stop there. “I noticed about the time school got out in May that the president hasn’t kept many of his promises, too. And maybe that’s what this group of people is worried about.”

By promises, he meant improving the economy and increasing jobs, as well as winding down the war in Iraq and getting out of Afghanistan. From his perspective, the war in Iraq has been forever; he can’t remember a time when we didn’t have troops there.

Which brings me to a rather important point: these aren’t the 19-to-30-year-old voters polled by Gallup and noted on ValleyGirl’s chart. This is a very small sampling of voters for 2012 and 2016, when these two people will vote for the first time, respectively.

Let’s recap:

The 16-year-old who will vote in 2012 for the first time thinks the government has lied.

The 12-year-old who will vote for the first time in 2016 thinks the president hasn’t kept his promises and that more jobs are needed.


It’s a good thing for the White House their age group wasn’t polled by Gallup.

{END OF QUOTE}

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Postby Major Kong » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:22 pm

Pfft. Why don't you progressives just run along and play on your other 20,000 threads you are so fond of drowning out?

This thread should be left pristine for those who wish to blow gigantic gaping holes in the balsa wood sides of the prevailing Democratic group think.

How about it southpaws? Dissent is patriotic. Or was that just another load of B.S. you all swallowed?
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Postby basil » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:09 pm

Kong Konks Komments

:lol:

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Postby Major Kong » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:17 pm

Case in point
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Postby basil » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:21 pm

Kong Kills Kase

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Postby Major Kong » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:27 pm

basil brays
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Postby basil » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:37 pm

Kong Kisses KueKards

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Postby SeverusSnape » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:01 am

Are we done yet?

Please stick to topic.

And if you are displeased with how someone posts on thread Major Kong, the correct way to handle it is not to take the role of moderator but to write a moderator and ask them to step in.

Carry on, not as you were, but as should be.

Thank you,
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Postby basil » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:40 am

Severus Stops Silliness

:)

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Postby Cenedril_Gildinaur » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:22 pm

I think you were a bit harsh, Major Kong. While basil's style is rather ... censored lest I get permabanned ... the two articles he posted do show some weaknesses within Democrat ranks.

Not all criticism of Democrats needs to come from Republicans, or I wouldn't be able to post in this thread. Nor does all criticism of Republicans need to come from Democrats, or I wouldn't be able to post in the companion thread.

Progressives have plenty to complain about on issues such as gay rights where Obama has been an abysmal failure to even notice that the issue is going on right in front of his face. He's keeping Don't Ask Don't Tell, and it took a Republican judge to end marriage apartheid in California.
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Postby Major Kong » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:40 pm

"2010 was always going to be a Republican year, in the midterm tradition," Sabato said in his latest prediction, issued Thursday. "But conditions have deteriorated badly for Democrats over the summer. The economy appears rotten, with little chance of a substantial comeback by November 2nd. Unemployment is very high, income growth sluggish, and public confidence quite low. The Democrats' self-proclaimed 'Recovery Summer' has become a term of derision, and to most voters—fair or not—it seems that President Obama has over-promised and under-delivered."

http://politics.usnews.com/news/washing ... ction.html

Read the whole article if you want the entire, bleak picture for Democrats.
Or not. It's so much easier to keep attacking Sarah Palin!
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Postby DarkJello » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:58 am

Major Kong:

It is a LOT easier to attack Sarah Palin, but you also cannot blame the liberals 100% for that. :wink:

She is like prozac for their depression. One day many of them might even thank her for helping THEM through the tough times with a laugh or 3.

(I Like Sarah for sure, but I don't want her as President either).

She can stay a "rogue" and just travel around the country fanning the flames of revolt. Make america a better place by helping the pendulum swing to the right and all that jazz... Make some cash, forget to tip some bellhop, inspire women, and raise kids while razing the opposition!

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Postby portia » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:20 am

YAWN.

The far left got its collective hopes up, without basis--it was always wishful thinking--and now that reality has set it, it feels betrayed.

YAWN.

Some of those unrealistic hopes were surely encouraged by Candidate Obama, but neither the far left hopes nor the far right fears were justified; that is not how governing works in this country.

This happens over and over again, whenever there is a change of party in the White House or the Congress, but few people see the pattern, and learn from it.

The fact that the far left is disappointed should not come as a surprise, or a revelation, to anyone.

YAWN
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Postby Major Kong » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:46 pm

The fact that the far left is disappointed should not come as a surprise, or a revelation, to anyone.


YAWN

but few people see the pattern, and learn from it


How true. Now we have to go through 1994 all over again. It is amazing how quickly the people forget how poorly the Democrats govern.

The polarizing president
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 79_pf.html
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