Just curious.

Tolkien's worlds were birthed out of his love of language and his work at creating new ones. Enter into discussions surrounding Tolkien's languages.

Just curious.

Postby jrdufour07 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:51 pm

I am interested in learning how to write with (in?) Tengwar, and am just wondering about the vowel placement in non-elvish languages. In the appendices of LotR, it says that in Quenya, the tehta, or vowel, is placed above the preceding consonant, and in Sindarian, the tehta is placed above the following consonant. I was wondering what the convention was for other languages written with the Feanorian letters, mainly English. As i have been practicing, i have been putting the vowel on the preceding consonant, as in Quenya, but I'm not sure if thats right, or if there is even a 'right' or 'wrong' way to do it, or if it is merely subjective.
jrdufour07
Petitioner to the Council
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:27 pm
Top

Postby Isildilmë » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:24 am

I may answer this one for you. It depends on the language you transcribe. In English, the tehta is carried by the following consonnant, as in Sindarin. For other languages, it often depends on the position the vowels in most of the words... as an example, in Spanish, as in Quenya, many words end with a vowel and not so many start with a vowel, so the more logical way to transcribe there languages is to put the tehtar over the preceeding tengwar...

In any case, I usually refeer to already constructed transcription modes... some where made by Tolkien or extrapolated from texts he wrote, and some where created by fans for there own language. If the result seems logical and complete enough to me, then I may use it.

You may also remark that the position of the tehtar is not the only change from a language to another... the meaning of the tengwar can also differ... some sounds/consonants are almost always transcribed the same, but others have to be represented by different tengwar (example : V).

If you have more questions of if you'd like to have some of your transcriptions checked/commented, feel free to ask, to post them or to send me an email with the button at the end of this post. You can also join us in the Official Tengwar Transcription Thread III.

P.S. : And yes, for me it is better to say "write with Tengwar" than "in Tengwar", because Tengwar is a script, not a language, and this phrase expresses it better ! But this is just me, and English is not even my language, so ... !
User avatar
Isildilmë
Devoted to the Sheen

 
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Valinor, where else ?
Top

Postby jrdufour07 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:27 pm

thank you very much!
jrdufour07
Petitioner to the Council
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:27 pm
Top

Postby Galin » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:31 am

Amanye Tenceli notes that in a letter to Anthony D. Howlett, Tolkien demonstrates how to write the name Imladrist "in the antique S. mode shown on the gates of Moria" and "(i)n the general use (applicable to both S. and Q.) of the period of the tale". He also shows two different ways to write Rivendell using the latter mode.

And (Amanye Tenceli again)...

'Vowels are in the General Use primarily represented by ómatehtar, vowel-marks. As demonstrated in DTS 58, vowel-marks may in this mode be placed either above the following or the preceding consonant tengwa.' ('DTS 58' being the letter to Anthony D. Howlett in the following link).

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/Lo ... t_id=34NDT


So while I myself would tend to follow the indication of the Appendices, which has already been noted, it seems this matter is a bit more fluid according to other examples.
User avatar
Galin
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:10 am
Top


Return to Language

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron