Isildilmë wrote:![]()
*admiring silence*
Hehe

Got anywhere with the Tengwar? Given your backlog I'm guessing probably not!
Isildilmë wrote:![]()
*admiring silence*
Xandarien wrote:Isildilmë wrote:![]()
*admiring silence*
Hehe![]()
Got anywhere with the Tengwar? Given your backlog I'm guessing probably not!
Xandarien wrote:Sixth page finished, started the seventh (the end is finally in sight lol).
Cillendor wrote:I'm glad to see that you're working on this again!
Cillendor wrote:is this correct or should it be idh?
Also I see "in lind gling"; is this correct? Since you said so, I'll assume all other occurrences of lind/gling are correct at this point.
I'll update the PDF* in a moment so you can check over it if you want, and I'd love to see Isildilmë's response too. I have nothing to do later this afternoon (in CST, in case you're wondering), so I'll tackle the third paragraph later today. ^_^
*Dropbox is awesome! You don't need to change all of your embedded hyperlinks if you update the file, so long as the name stays the same. That's so cool!
avogel57 wrote:Well, it seems that while Quenya may be somewhat more appropriate, the actual translation would be a while in the works, whereas Xandarien already has a decent start on the Sindarin version. I'm leaning towards let's do this in Sindarin in the near term (next few months) and transcribe it, then set it into art, and then if and when we get this in Quenya, we can look at doing it a second or third time.
Cillendor wrote:Another question: On page 2, you have "an anírn galad i valan ah aglar en-ethad i óniel anden." I'm sure it's a typo, but would I be safe to assume that you mean anírOn?
And further down page 2, you have two more occurrences of in Rodyn. Ought I change this as well?
On page 1, you have Lind Veleg, but on page 3, you have Gling Veleg. Are both of these correct?
And finally, just doing a cursory CTRL+F down the page, you have a few instances of i gling that appear to be ú-vutated (haha). Are they meant to be that way, or is that a by-product of changing out lind for gling?
Is Iâ meant to be two syllables? I ask because how I would write a preceding /i/ that functions as an English /y/-consonant is with a yanta, but that would produce "yâ" as a single syllable. I don't know whether this would be seen as two syllables or one to a native speaker. If it is meant to be two distinct syllables, I'll change the yanta to a regular short-carrier + /i/. (This question also pertains to io.)
EDIT (11:45PM): Page 5 finished. I love spring break. ♥ Also personally, the i i are very confusing. At first I thought they were just typos, so I marked them, but then I realized that they aren't and they mean something like "that the" or "that who" or something along those lines. Is there any way to alter this? I think in spoken Sindarin, it would be confusing because either it would sound like î, or you'd have to take a brief stop in the flow of the words to vocalize the two separate words. Personally, I think Tolkien used i for too many things, but I can see how the meanings overlap differently than they do in English. Regardless, it seems rather impractical. :/
Xandarien wrote:Cillendor wrote:And further down page 2, you have two more occurrences of in Rodyn. Ought I change this as well?
Oh pfft. I know I'm not well at the moment, but quite how I managed to change everything in my working document and then actually believe I'd updated them on here and then hadn't....![]()
Went back through and changed a load, there were also a few e-Rodyn that snuck through, obviously that should also be idh-Rodyn (but with the - to signify 'possession' as it were, the proper word escapes me).
Xandarien wrote:And finally, just doing a cursory CTRL+F down the page, you have a few instances of i gling that appear to be ú-vutated (haha). Are they meant to be that way, or is that a by-product of changing out lind for gling?
Hemmed and hawwed about that one, as obviously because it's being done into Tengwar, the glottal stop disappears and it just looks like 'i ling', but probably the final conclusion is 'they should all be i 'ling' otherwise it's incorrect. If it's following 'a/ah' then 'gling' stands, as g doesn't mutate after 'a'.
Xandarien wrote:EDIT (11:45PM): Page 5 finished. I love spring break. ♥ Also personally, the i i are very confusing. At first I thought they were just typos, so I marked them, but then I realized that they aren't and they mean something like "that the" or "that who" or something along those lines. Is there any way to alter this? I think in spoken Sindarin, it would be confusing because either it would sound like î, or you'd have to take a brief stop in the flow of the words to vocalize the two separate words. Personally, I think Tolkien used i for too many things, but I can see how the meanings overlap differently than they do in English. Regardless, it seems rather impractical. :/
Yis, I know what you mean, but in situations like this:
ah in Rodyn cenir i i thîr dîn = 'and the Ainur saw that his countenance/face' - well the second 'i' is part of the pronoun. I equate it a little to German, where the verb is at the end of the sentence, you have to finish the sentence to know exactly what the person is talking about.
Die Götter werden die Sterne erhöhen = Don't know until the end of the sentence what they're doing to those stars!
If you just said 'i i' to someone in isolation, it'd probably be either a) you're stuttering 'the the', or b) it's like a half clause that needs the rest of the sentence (go back to above argument), 'that which the'. That which the what? Who did it?
Cillendor wrote:
So then change e-Rodyn to idh-Rodyn? Got it! And what about the examples I highlighted in the PDF of en-Rodyn? Should they be in-Rodyn or idh-Rodyn? I'm guessing the latter, and I'll make the change but still keep them marked red in case you want to change them. Then there are a few examples (also highlighted in the PDF) of i Rodyn. Is that correct?
I didn't find any cases of a gling, but I thought a caused lenition. Does it not? Anyway, Tengwar does have a symbol to denote a lenited /g/. It is called halla, and in Sindarin it is used for that. I don't think it can be used for other instances of apostrophes due to mutation, though. Anyway, it'll end up looking like this:
Ah, I see. Hmmm, okay. I wish Tolkien had made the subordinate conjunction to be i(h) so that it would (1) cause "H-mutation" like o(h) and (2) cause the /h/ to prefix to a subsequent vowel, which would then give us i hi—much easier for the speaking.
Sooo final question:
Besides the other questions I had related to idh Rodyn, on page 5 you have, "Dan en-gwely a gwaew Aran Einior ihdrant [sic]." I was wondering if it shouldn't be "dan in-gwely adh in-gwaew", since the "of the" is affixed to the noun. In English it reads, "But of the airs and the winds Manwë pondered," so does "of-the" cover "airs and the winds", or does "of-the" need to be restated? My suspicion is that it ought to be repeated for "the winds", but you're better at this than I am.
Xandarien wrote:Cillendor wrote:
So then change e-Rodyn to idh-Rodyn? Got it! And what about the examples I highlighted in the PDF of en-Rodyn? Should they be in-Rodyn or idh-Rodyn? I'm guessing the latter, and I'll make the change but still keep them marked red in case you want to change them. Then there are a few examples (also highlighted in the PDF) of i Rodyn. Is that correct?
Yeah the en- /e- was my writing process of 'should it be e- or edh-, thus i- or idh-', any en- should also be idh-
i Rodyn? Have to have a check... oh lol, yeah, they need changing too.
Xandarien wrote:Yis...
idh Rodyn = the Ainur
idh-Rodyn = of the Ainur
so there should be both appearing throughout.
There is a temptation to (I dislike ambiguity) just treat Rodyn as an 'R' and make it i-rodyn for 'of the Ainur'.
Cillendor wrote:
As in the Doriathrin mutation? Just say the word if that's what you want. It's an easy fix.
One question on page 7: You have the word anirathar. Is there supposed to be an accent over the /i/?
Xandarien wrote:Cillendor wrote:
As in the Doriathrin mutation? Just say the word if that's what you want. It's an easy fix.
One question on page 7: You have the word anirathar. Is there supposed to be an accent over the /i/?
Yeah let's do that, I'll alter it at some point on here and in my file. Just for the 'of the' though not all the 'the's.
Finished page 7, and the first third of page 8. Nearly done... (while writing one essay on Cleopatra, one on Maria Callas, one on Plato and one on how the environment affects behaviour for psychology).
Cillendor wrote:Haha it happens to the best of us, I'm sure. But in the portion you just added, is ae supposed to be changed to pe?
I know the feeling of being stressed. I'm doing a triple major right now that overlaps with itself enough to make it a waste not to do it, but is still way more work than this burnt-out, fifth-year college kid can handle.
Xandarien wrote:Cillendor wrote:Haha it happens to the best of us, I'm sure. But in the portion you just added, is ae supposed to be changed to pe?
I know the feeling of being stressed. I'm doing a triple major right now that overlaps with itself enough to make it a waste not to do it, but is still way more work than this burnt-out, fifth-year college kid can handle.
Aye, ae -> pe.
What's a major, asks the ignorant Scot? Degree course?
Cillendor wrote:I didn't find any cases of a gling, but I thought a caused lenition. Does it not? Anyway, Tengwar does have a symbol to denote a lenited /g/. It is called halla, and in Sindarin it is used for that. I don't think it can be used for other instances of apostrophes due to mutation, though. Anyway, it'll end up looking like this:
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