The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien - The One Ring

by **Durin VIII** » Fri Apr 05, 2002 2:50 pm

ArPharazon had the same reaction I posted. That S&M section was so different from the rest of the book it really bothered me. My thought was that it was done as a short chapter and someone in his writers group suggested making it sex section, and his editor went along with the idea to help with the teen age boy market (very important for fantasy books). I would also like to know if anything like that is in other books. If it was not for that section I would have picked up #2 by now, but that shows such poor writing that I am reluctant to give the rest of the series a try.

by **ArPharazon** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:50 am

Is anyone going to let Durin and I know whether the other books are similar to the first?

by **Hobbituk** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 4:43 am

I would say that every book has at least one long or several short explicit scenes. very explicit. Usually rape. It often feels very gratuitous. The thing is, I have a feeling that TG could write it pretty well if he had to. but he doesn't seem to want to.

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:33 am

ArPharazon there is indeed more scenes like that, only 2 pages or so, and not so wicked anymore, but indeed Rape or the intent to that is coming back every time<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0>

by **Durin VIII** » Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:23 pm

I read fantasy books for pure entertainment and escape. Rape does not fall into the entertainment category for me. There are plenty of other books to read out there so I doubt I will continue with the series. Too bad outside unneeded erotica I liked the first book, but it was not so outstanding that I want to give him another shot.

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:28 am

Well Durin, i would give the second book a try, it's very good and i think you will like it, it ain't all rape, only a very small part (2 pages) that is it, and gladly nothing happens<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

by **Gllew** » Fri Apr 12, 2002 1:37 pm

I would at least read the fourth (Temple of Winds) and/or the sixth (Faith of the Fallen). They are pretty good. Faith of the Fallen is exceptional, even as a stand alone read.

by **Hobbituk** » Sat Apr 13, 2002 7:34 am

Although I quite liked Faith of the Fallen, I found it to be a very very preachy book. As was Soul of the Fire. The plot also seemed to be too similar to that of Stone of Tears as well. Apparently the next book won't be out until next spring. bloody lazy authors...

by **Kingslayer** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 12:33 am

The biggest problem I have with the series is that it doesn't flow very well between books. It seems like for every book, Goodkind has to invent a reason for the characters to get into trouble. In Wheel of Time, you get the sense that Jordan knew right from book I exactly what he wanted to do. The books flow nicely together so that it actually feels like a series. Along the way, he decided to stretch it out a bit, but that's a separate complaint. Same thing with the other series for which I'm waiting for the next installment: George Martin's series. You just get the sense that the author is in complete control of the series, whereas Goodkind seems to lurch about, looking for excuses to put the characters in danger. I mean come on, a "maternity spell"??

by **ArPharazon** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 12:58 am

The responses to my earlier question about the "sex scenes" seem only to emphasise how out of place that long S&M episode in the first book is. I still have an odd feeling about Goodkind as an author. Its not that the "erotic" pages were not well written, they are just out of place and have nothing whatsoever to do with the first book. They could be removed without much damage to the rest of the book. I found they demeaned and undermined the leading character, who could have discovered the secret of his magic in some other - perhaps more tasteful - way. So what exactly is bubbling beneath the surface of the author's mind?? Does he aspire to be another Anne Rice secretly? Does he right porn under an assumed name? Anyone know? Do we have any biographical details of the author at all? Is he/she male or female? Anyone know?

by **Hobbituk** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 7:21 am

Terry Goodkind is male, married and lives in a secluded house which he built himself with his wife. As a youngster he battled with what he calls 'severe dyslexia'. He's not a big reader because of his dyslexia, but this did not stop him from condeming people who wanted to make his books into a film, "it is not my job to entertain the lazy or the illiterate". He has some strange political values, including the belief that education is a waste of time and is pure political hegemony... ...that's all I can remember from what i've read in various places<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **ArPharazon** » Sun Apr 14, 2002 7:32 am

It fits. I think I'll continue to pass his books by. Thanks for all the assistance guys and gals.

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 1:46 am

<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> well i will continue reading the serie (if drieske allows it<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>) but with a different view now<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>

by **Durin VIII** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:23 am

Maeglin by all means you should keep reading them if you find them entertaining! Just like people who enjoy Robert Jordan should keep reading his stuff. Often on this board some people come across very insulting towards anyone that dares like a writer that they deem beneath their high standards. You should read fiction to be entertained first and if you happen to learn something about yourself or the world as well all the better. I like Eddings and a lot of DragonLance stuff. It might not be great literature, but it entertains me and that's what is important.

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:43 am

Thanks Durin VIII <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> i agree with you<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Imo Terry Goodkind is a great writer, and it entertains me, nothing will change that<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. It aint just my opion, it's the truth<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>

by **Sparkly_Zombie_Elf** » Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:49 am

I love the series...I'm on book four. I find some of the things disturbing, but that just makes the books better, in my mind...

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 12:52 am

I agree with You sparkly<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Well i still have to read the fourth book!!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

by **Sparkly_Zombie_Elf** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 8:07 am

I just finished the fourth book and it was very very good. I like everything about the books, even the gore.

by **Matrim** » Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:07 am

I love the books. I just finished "Faith of the Fallen." Though he is quite graphic and brutal, it does not make up a majority of the story. The books entertained me, even though I dont think they are anywhere near as good as Tolkien. Durin is completely right. Even though I have heard people bash Jordan and Goodkind, I still wait for thier next books to come out so I can read them. They help me escape the mundane and enter my dream, the world of fantasy. Just like my quote says.

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 1:22 am

Totally agreed Matrim<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Robert Jordan is great!!<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I have read a lot of him too, a great author just like Terry Goodkind! but indeed Tolkien still is my favorite<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

by **shadowbane** » Thu Apr 25, 2002 11:48 am

I've read all of the books exept the last one, pillars of creation... and while I prefer the world created by Rob Jordan's 'Wheel of Time' the charachters in goodkinds works are all different, and therefore intresting. The mord-sith are one of the best thought out types of charachter in any series I've read. The way magic is represented is also good. I'm a big fan. and i'd advise everyone to read them.

by **michel_delving** » Thu May 02, 2002 10:29 am

haha sorry didn't see this thread- umm yeah i'm enjoying the series thus far, i am almost done with blood of the fold. hmm... richard sure does know how to toss things up-- and yes, mord sith are awesome<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> i agree in saying that sword of truth will probably be my second fav. series!

by **Kingslayer** » Thu May 02, 2002 3:42 pm

I just finished Pillars of Creation. Oh my, what an awful, awful book! What Path of Daggers was to Wheel of Time, this book is to Sword of Truth. I think Goodkind genuinely has no idea how to proceed with his series. He seems to be clutching at straws, inventing excuses for trouble, making things up as he goes along. He never set hard guidelines for how his world would operate, and now it seems like he's always changing the rules because that is the only way he can think of to advance the plot. I thought Faith of the Fallen was a great book, lessened only by the ill-conceived maternity spell (another case of making up magic rules as he goes along), but Pillars of Creation was a severe disappointment.

by **Mithrandir_** » Thu May 02, 2002 5:54 pm

Mithrandir has read up to Blood of the Fold. In his opinion, Terry Goodkind is a great author, but he can not even begin to compare to Tolkien <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **Hobbituk** » Fri May 03, 2002 1:41 am

I agree with you completely Kingslayer<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **arvengalathilion** » Sat May 04, 2002 5:37 pm

being new to this forum but also in the process of reading the last of TG's books "The Pillars of Creation" I thought it might be fun to add my thoughts to the community. Fell across these books 1 1/2 years ago and have been reading them (and other things) ever since. I loved the way "Wizard's First Rule" swept me away and I think I read it all in one stretch. The same thing happened with the 2nd and 3rd book on to the 4th where I am reading more because I want to know what happens then because they are marvelous. Find it very irritating that Richard and Kalhan are oh so good and have to endure oh so much and we are to sympathize with them and how come they are always somehow removed from eachother??? Another thing that bugs me is the lack of synonims. Richard's knucles will turn white time and again and have been ever since the first books. As for the maiming of women I actually hadn't thought about it untill I read this board. Probably a symptom of having too many teachers who are fond of falllic symbols and think that if a book doesn't have sex of some sort in it the writer probably had some sort of mental blok or some horrible latent craving fighting to come out in other ways. The blood and gore do remind me of what's-his-name Koontz (or something like that) and does at least ad some red colour <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> The obvious attac on Communism in Faith of the Fallen was a bit hard to swallow. Perhaps this is due to my very European upbringing but it does give me a bad taste in the mouth when Capitalism/Communism or should I say USA/USSR? is displayed in this manner. This does not mean that I do not like the books but just that I find that I can figure them out a bit too easily now I have read a few of them. I will probably read all the rest of the series laughing a bit at Richard's knucles going white and sighing at times but the books are in general a good read. They do somehow make you want to keep going on reading and when a book can entice you to read it all in one stretch it can't be all that bad

by **The,real,Maeglin** » Mon May 06, 2002 3:54 am

Welcome arvengalathilion<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> And an interesting view<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> although i admit not to have seen all that into his books. You meant Dean R Koontz??<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> I see indeed some things match..<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> The mord sith are indeed very interesting ,and also his view on Magic is very interesting.<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>

by **Rebecca** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 5:39 pm

Hi everyone. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> I don't mean to stir up old debates on the Sword of Truth series, but I just wanted to put in some of my own opinions. First of all, I loved the series. That is, up until book 5. Books 5,6, and 7 were all waht I'd consider ok books, but they horribly disappointed me. Especially after book 4, the Temple of the Winds. That one was my absolute favorite! Goodkind has signed a contract to write 10 books, so hopefully the next 3 will be better. (but I am beginning to doubt that) On the official webpage, it says book 8 is due out in June 2003. There's a messageboard there (Prophet's Inc.) where people discuss the books. (that was actually the very first messageboard I ever joined! and from there I found Ringbearer and then on to TORC <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>) <a target=new href="http://terrygoodkind.com/upload/">Here's a link for the messageboard, in case anyone wants to visit</a> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

by **drieske** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 1:46 am

Hello Rebecca <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Temple of the Winds was my favorite too, together with Wizard's First Rule!!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> And the Faith of the Fallen is uhm, well, I didn't like it <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>

by **Rebecca** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 7:09 am

Hi drieske <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Hmmm, now that I'm thinking about it, it is indeed a tough call between Wizard's First Rule and the Temple of the Winds. They were both so good! And I think I have to disagree about the scenes with the mord sith, Denna. Most people disliked that part, saying it stuck out from the rest of the book. Maybe some, true, but I think it was important for who Richard becomes in the rest of the series. Those of you that have read the whole series will notice that Richard's experiences with the Mord Sith and how he changed because of them impact the other books. At least, that's what I think. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>

The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien - The One Ring

Terry Goodkind "Sword of Truth" serie

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