Crossbreeds

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Crossbreeds

Postby Lebasi » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:05 am

This probably sounds stupid, but can races other than elves/men orcs/men etc crossbreed?

For example, can you have a half elf half hobbit?
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Postby Swordsman_Of_The_Tower » Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:20 am

The only combinations that I know of are Elf and men (Elronds lineage) and I believe orcs/goblins and men.
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Postby Entmooting » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:06 am

There would appear to be little reason why interracial combinations would be disallowed, especially considering the viability of Elf/Human offspring. However, the viability of this combination may simply be the will of Eru.

Hobbits, I believe, are very closely related to men, so Hobbit/Human offspring would certainly be expected to be viable. Whether the offspring would be fertile, if the rules of genetics from our world are the same in Middle Earth, would depend on the historical distance to their common ancestor.

In truth, the appliance of science too rigorously to Tolkien's mythos can tend to erode the “magic”. Furthermore, the concept of an Ent becoming amorous with a Hobbit lass is simply too eye-popping!
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Postby Morwenna » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:28 am

I would suspect that, since Tolkien did say that Hobbits were really a subset of Men, Hobbits should be as able to crossbreed with Elves as Men are. ANd of course they could crossbreed with Men under tht logic. Whether or not anyone would care to is another story.

It does, however, give some credence to the Hobbit suspicion that a long-ago Took might have mated with an Elf, possibly a Wood-elf.
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Postby crispycreme » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:36 am

Hobbits, I believe, are very closely related to men, so Hobbit/Human offspring would certainly be expected to be viable. Whether the offspring would be fertile, if the rules of genetics from our world are the same in Middle Earth, would depend on the historical distance to their common ancestor.


Which makes the hybridization of elves and men near impossible, since they were created independantly from each other. And, depending on your preference for orc origins, it also makes human-orc half breeds problematic. Heck, how could maia and elves procreate?!

In truth, the appliance of science too rigorously to Tolkien's mythos can tend to erode the “magic”.


Oh, right. ;)
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Postby Celebrendir » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:44 pm

crispycreme wrote:Heck, how could maia and elves procreate?!

Are you referring to Melian and Thingol? In that case it was only one Maia and one Elf; but as for how they did it, I am curious about that as well! As far as I know it's the only such case.

Entmooting wrote:Hobbits, I believe, are very closely related to men

Why do you believe this?

I would also like to point out another apparent crossbreed: half-trolls. Tolkien mentions these in "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields":

"...and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."

Could these hideous creatures be troll/man hybrids?
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Postby Prince_of_the_Halflings » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:03 pm

Celebrendir wrote:
Entmooting wrote:Hobbits, I believe, are very closely related to men

Why do you believe this?


Probably because Tolkien says they are related. It's almost the first thing he says in the Prologue to "The Lord Of the Rings":

"It is plain indeed that in spite of later estrangement Hobbits are relatives of ours: far nearer to us than Elves, or even than Dwarves."

Since Men and Elves can crossbreed, and Men and Hobbits are even more closely related (according to the author himself) it would be reasonable to assume that Men and Hobbits can also crossbreed.

I guess the question is: "How would you recognise such a hybrid?" Hobbits look like small humans anyway, aside from the hairy feet, so wouldn't a half-human, half-hobbit just look like a smaller than average human?

Celebrendir wrote:I would also like to point out another apparent crossbreed: half-trolls. Tolkien mentions these in "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields":

"...and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues."

Could these hideous creatures be troll/man hybrids?


Probably not. He says that they are "like" half-trolls. So he means that they resemble what a troll/man hybrid might look like. He doesn't say that such things actually exist. Also we are not told exactly why they are in some way like trolls. Is it their appearance, or just their size? It could just be that they are very big men ... we need to put Peter Jackson's movies out of our minds for a minute and think about how Tolkien actually imagined trolls to be.

Also, if he meant that they actually were half-trolls then he wouldn't have first said that they were men.

It's an unfortunate description really. It's obviously written from the point of view of a Hobbit who has clearly never seen a black man, presumably an extremely tall and fiercesome black man, but still ... :shock:
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Postby ngaur » Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:30 am

Besides Elves and Men there are few crossbreeds that would occur naturally. The differences in appearance are too many to make it a natural desire. The other instances like breeding Men with Orks are only practised by tyrant rulers and is considered a black evil.

Hobbits are akin to Men though and they live together in Bree for instance. It would be possible though perhaps unlikey that rare mingling between Hobbits and Men could take place there.

Don't know what the Half-Trolls are, but I suspect the only voluntary occurances were between Elves and Men. Hobbits and Men or Hobbits and Elves might be possible but extremely rare.

Dwarfs? No. Or maybe. But no. Don't know. They are apart. I don't think the Dwarves themselves would ever be interested in crossbreeding.

There is also the one and only Elf and Ainu.
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