Three film breakdown

The Hobbit is in production as 3 separate films, and will be released 1 year apart, with the first due December 2012. Head in to discuss your thoughts and reactions, and post any questions you might have about these films.

Three film breakdown

Postby Noria » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:25 pm

Has anyone read the couple of essays TORN has posted in the last few weeks which discuss the idea of a Hobbit trilogy and how the movies might be broken down? I think there are some good ideas there, though I don't agree with everything. Maybe you are all too discouraged to care. :wink:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08 ... t-trilogy/

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08 ... xpect-now/

My preference would be to have most of the first movie focus on Bilbo's story, with preliminaries for the White Council/Dol Goldur plotline. I'd like to see it end with Barrels out of Bond. The second movie could end with the death of Smaug, and the third where the Hobbit ends, after the BotFA. The unknown quanties are the Dol Goldur plot and anything else PJ includes from the appendices.

Of course what I 'm really looking forward to is Tauriel, particularly her torrid romance with Kili (or is if Fili - I forget?) :wink: :lol: :roll:
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Postby Denethor » Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:25 pm

Film One: From An Unexpected Party to Barrels Out of Bond.
Film Two: From the arrival at Lake Town to the start of the homeward journey.
Film Three: The Auction, now with added spoon theft.

Seriously though, I agree Barrels is a decent place to finish the first one: it combines a reasonably satisfying ending with sufficient pacing. The other possibility is more cliff-hanger: having chased away the spiders, the film ends with the Elven King's gate shutting as the dwarves are taken prisoner. The death of Smaug would be an ideal climax for the end of a film, but in a trilogy, you'd have to put it at the end of the second - and it would be interesting to see how you'd stretch Lake Town-to-Smaug into an entire film. Presumably the second film will be heavy with Dol Guldur material.
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Postby Hamfast Gamgee » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:25 am

Well if we have three movies we could end the first one earlier. On a cliffhanger maybe. What about ending the first one just before the eagle rescue? Be a nice cliffie!
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Postby portia » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:24 am

I would end the first movie much earlier, maybe as early as Bilbo escaping from the cave with the ring. But to do that, I'd have to include more of what is going on elsewhere, maybe something that shows the audience how significant the ring is, even though Bilbo doesn't know it, and Gandalf will not, until he does his research.

I had no problem with the LOTR movies jumping around to show activities of different groups after the Fellowship broke up.

Think I would break the second film during the buildup to the B of FA, but I am not sure exactly where, as I can't really guess what would be added into the second film.
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Postby GlassHouse » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:59 am

I look forward to the condensed, purist made versions that will eventually pop up on You Tube. Much like the re-edits of the Star Wars prequels.
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Postby Queen_Beruthiel » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:00 am

Hamfast Gamgee wrote:Well if we have three movies we could end the first one earlier. On a cliffhanger maybe. What about ending the first one just before the eagle rescue? Be a nice cliffie!


If they did that, I honestly don't know what dramatic "meat" there would be in Film 1 at all.

The Company is formed.
Their road trip begins.
They meet the trolls.
They visit Rivendell.
Mountains + goblins + Gollum.

That's - what? - one hour?
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Postby GlassHouse » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:45 am

depends on how long the scene with the roller coaster in the Orc caves lasts.
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Postby Noria » Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:13 am

GlassHouse wrote:depends on how long the scene with the roller coaster in the Orc caves lasts.


:rofl: Glasshouse, have you ever played The Hobbit video game? I'm way too old to be much of a gamer but I like that one.

Anyway, Bilbo spends ages roaming aroung the Goblin caves doing game stuff and just before he finds the Ring and meets Gollum, he has to escape from the Goblin mines on a mining car roller coaster.
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Postby portia » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:16 pm

Sounds like a theme park to me.

But, the movie doesn't have to stay with Bilbo the whole time. We could have scenes of the entity known as the Necromancer, worries about what he might do, the White Council, and the beginnings of acts against him. We could also have suspense-building scenes of the Lonely Mountain and the damage the dragon has done.

Some of these scenes would foreshadow the importance of the Ring, some would show how nasty the dragon is and how much he needs to be gotten rid of; not just so the Dwarves can get their jewels and kingdom back.

I think those things could fill a first installment, and give the audience a better idea of what is at stake, behind the children's adventure story.
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Postby GlassHouse » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:18 am

Noria wrote:
GlassHouse wrote:depends on how long the scene with the roller coaster in the Orc caves lasts.


:rofl: Glasshouse, have you ever played The Hobbit video game? I'm way too old to be much of a gamer but I like that one.

Anyway, Bilbo spends ages roaming aroung the Goblin caves doing game stuff and just before he finds the Ring and meets Gollum, he has to escape from the Goblin mines on a mining car roller coaster.


I remember that game, I bought it for my kids when it came out...wish I still had it, it was so bad it was good.
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Postby AlatarVinyamar » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:41 pm

I just downloaded it recently! Its still available if you know where to look. (Having paid for both the Xbox and Gamecube versions I don't feel bad about snagging an abandonware copy)
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Postby Telemachos » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:26 am

I could see Film 1 ending with them leaving Beorn, but since it's so late in the game I still assume it'll go through the barrel escape. The wild card is all the extra material, since I have no idea how much (and how long) all of it will be.
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Postby Noria » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:20 pm

Telemachos wrote:I could see Film 1 ending with them leaving Beorn, but since it's so late in the game I still assume it'll go through the barrel escape. The wild card is all the extra material, since I have no idea how much (and how long) all of it will be.


That's it exactly. Is there time to change anything and do they want to? What role will the other plotline play?

I like the barrel escape as an ending because

1) I just like the image of the company floating down the river, maybe seeing Laketown or the Lonely Mountain at the very end and it seems to me to be a logical point at which to break.

2) IMO Bilbo's development goes reaches a bit of a plateau after the escape; he's slightly passive until they get to Erebor at which point he steps up again. Again, a logical point at which to break IMO.

There's nothing to say that PJ is going to follow the book exactly on either point, of course.
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Postby Elmtree » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:06 am

I agree Barrels is the place to end it, due to it being a logical place to break Bilbo's story. Stuff happened to him (including the finding of the ring and escape from Gollum) but battling the spiders, and then rescuing the Dwarves from the elves are when he really showed what he was made of- he began to be an active force, not a passive one. it's a climax to his character-story, it's an 'end' even though it's followed by more.

we sort of re-set to what seems an earlier Bilbo ("thag you berry buch"), the Baggins from Hobbiton- -but not really. He's different, inside from here on. There is no other place in the story where we have that much of a change- he's been growing to that point, but now he's through it, not as much changed as matured. Strengthened. Maybe he's become himself at this point, so to speak.

But how to get two more films out of the rest of the material? Even with the made up parts?
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Postby Denethor » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:37 am

Elmtree wrote:But how to get two more films out of the rest of the material? Even with the made up parts?


Spoons. Lots of spoons.
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Postby Noria » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:42 am

Elmtree wrote:I agree Barrels is the place to end it, due to it being a logical place to break Bilbo's story. Stuff happened to him (including the finding of the ring and escape from Gollum) but battling the spiders, and then rescuing the Dwarves from the elves are when he really showed what he was made of- he began to be an active force, not a passive one. it's a climax to his character-story, it's an 'end' even though it's followed by more.

we sort of re-set to what seems an earlier Bilbo ("thag you berry buch"), the Baggins from Hobbiton- -but not really. He's different, inside from here on. There is no other place in the story where we have that much of a change- he's been growing to that point, but now he's through it, not as much changed as matured. Strengthened. Maybe he's become himself at this point, so to speak.

But how to get two more films out of the rest of the material? Even with the made up parts?


Hard to say, isn't it, when we know almost nothing about the White Council plot line. I do think it's logical to end the second movie with the death of Smaug because isn't the true climax of the book well after that, with the near descent into interspecies war, the BoFA and Thorin's death?
I feel that Bilbo's story ends with his reconciliation with Thorin.

Elmtree, well put about Bilbo's earlier development - that's what I was trying to say but you said it better.
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Postby vercingetorix » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:20 am

Three film breakdown? Yep, I believe that's exactly what I'll suffer................. :D
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Postby Diamond of Long Cleeve » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:52 am

Then don't watch them. :)
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Postby vercingetorix » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:07 am

Diamond of Long Cleeve wrote:Then don't watch them. :)
And lose the conduit for purifying my soul by ridding myself of my bile? Not a chance! :lol:
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Postby Diamond of Long Cleeve » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:16 am

I am surprised that anyone who hates PJ's Middle-earth as much as you do is willing to PAY to see it ...

If I hated something that much, I simply wouldn't bother. *shrug*
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Postby vercingetorix » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:25 am

Diamond of Long Cleeve wrote:I am surprised that anyone who hates PJ's Middle-earth as much as you do is willing to PAY to see it ...

If I hated something that much, I simply wouldn't bother. *shrug*
Who said anything about paying? I get free tickets to my local cinema. Nepotism is a terrible thing.............. :lol:
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Postby Elmtree » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:14 pm

Noria wrote:I do think it's logical to end the second movie with the death of Smaug because isn't the true climax of the book well after that, with the near descent into interspecies war, the BoFA and Thorin's death?
I feel that Bilbo's story ends with his reconciliation with Thorin.

.


That seems logical to me-- the first story ending with Barrels, due to it being a major 'change' in Bilbo's story, then Smaug, then BotFA, but is there enough material from Laketown thru Smaug for a film? Probably, but what about the next-- enough from Smaug thru the BotFA without a lot of made up stuff?

I'm thinking we're going to get an active Necromancer whose plotting to manipulate the Dwarves/Elves into war to get them out the way, or something that effect.

I wonder if we'll also have the notion that the ring is affecting the peoples, as we saw in the film version of the council of elrond. I hope not-- as in the book it was the basic greed and misunderstanding inside otherwise 'normal' folks, and giving an outside catalyst diminishes that. Besides Bilbo does not seem affected (and he really wasn't, yet).

If they have the Necromancer/Sauron being that same influence (divisive) I *might* be okay with it, depending how they do it. I'm really not sure how they can make a third movie from Smaug's downfall to Bilbo's return to Hobbiton without adding a lot. I don't necessarily object to adding some here, as long as it's done well (in keeping with Tolkien's themes and not diminishing Bilbo's story-- even enhancing it, maybe)
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Postby jsavfusco » Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:57 am

As I just posted in another thread, maybe now with three films, PJ could find a way to fit Tom Bombadil's character in there. His whimsical nature would be a good fit for the Hobbit.
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Postby Noria » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:40 am

jsavfusco wrote:As I just posted in another thread, maybe now with three films, PJ could find a way to fit Tom Bombadil's character in there. His whimsical nature would be a good fit for the Hobbit.


No offense jsavfusco, but I hope not. Tom is great in the book but I'm not sure that I could bear to actually see him dancing around singing fol-der-olly ding-ding-dong or whatever in 3D 48 FPS.

Seriously, I doubt that we'll see him. Has anyone seen any any indication that previously omitted characters will be added because of the third movie? My thought has been that PJ will just include more about the characters he has already been working with, both stuff already shot and new scenes.

However, I completely agree that Tom Bombadil's a better fit in The Hobbit than PJ's LotR.
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Postby jsavfusco » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:55 am

Noria wrote:
jsavfusco wrote:As I just posted in another thread, maybe now with three films, PJ could find a way to fit Tom Bombadil's character in there. His whimsical nature would be a good fit for the Hobbit.


No offense jsavfusco, but I hope not. Tom is great in the book but I'm not sure that I could bear to actually see him dancing around singing fol-der-olly ding-ding-dong or whatever in 3D 48 FPS.

Seriously, I doubt that we'll see him. Has anyone seen any any indication that previously omitted characters will be added because of the third movie? My thought has been that PJ will just include more about the characters he has already been working with, both stuff already shot and new scenes.

However, I completely agree that Tom Bombadil's a better fit in The Hobbit than PJ's LotR.


No offense taken, Noria. :)

I haven't seen any indication either that TB will be in the Hobbit. But if there's gonns be three movies now, there's plenty of room for him. Though I may be in the minority here, I always liked his character and even though I understand why PJ left him out Of LOTR, it would be kind of cool to have him make an appearance in some fashion in the Hobbit.
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Re: Three film breakdown

Postby Razorback » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:18 pm

Noria wrote:Has anyone read the couple of essays TORN has posted in the last few weeks


Nope. I get paid to read pre-teen writing.
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Re: Three film breakdown

Postby Noria » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:15 am

Razorback wrote:
Noria wrote:Has anyone read the couple of essays TORN has posted in the last few weeks


Nope. I get paid to read pre-teen writing.


LOL. The two articles on TORN are pretty positive about the three film thing. So am I.

I have always preferred this forum but there is actually at least as much purism and angst about the three movies being expressed there.
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Postby portia » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:04 am

I read the first listed essay. The writer has suggestions for scenes and plot lines enough for 5 films.

I like the idea of ending the second movie with the death of Smaug. He is a secondary villain (to borrow a phrase from the essay) and is, therefore, similar to Saruman in the structure of the story. For all the reasons we (I, too) felt that Saruman should die in TTT, Smaug should die in the second movie. There is enough in the rest of the story for another movie, especially if material is added tying Bilbo's earlier story in with LOTR.

A lot of the suggestions in the essay I read would greatly overburden the plot of TH. Yet, there is a lot of material about, and potential added material.
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Postby Dunthule » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:30 am

What would be climax of the third film?
I would expect some big event prior to Bilbo settling back in at Bag End and writing his memoirs.
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Postby Elmtree » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:57 pm

^Third film would be Battle of the Five Armies (maybe more 'critical' with the Necromancer storyline expanded).

Second Death of Smaug.

First, Barrels out of Bond.
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