How do you feel about firearms, gun control, and guns as self-defense?

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Postby Slaine » Mon Jun 26, 2000 6:21 pm

I'm sure you've had this discussion before, but from an English perspective I'm interested in knowing. I was brought up by a father who was into shooting in a big way, and I did a fair bit myself. Clay pigeon, full and small bore target, p.p etc. Please let me clarify before I am subject here to any derision, my father is a military historian and his and my interest in firearms is healthy; we are not "gun nuts". As you probably know, handguns are now banned here in the UK, as are most other forms of non-shotgun firearm. I still attend now and then a shooting club at Catterick garrison ( the largest military base in Europe), where we are limited to shooting mostly "antique", or off permit firearms. Do youfeel that lethal force, in the right hands is justifiable in defending your family against people who might be lethally armed themselves?<BR><BR><BR><BR>I beg you all not to quote Janet Reno to me, we have seen enough tragedies here to put a lot of shooting men and women off the sport, however a lot feel that a government sub-issue is at work , dis-arm the populace. How feel you on this issue, and can original ammendments to your constitution ever be out-dated? Will the USofA ever give up on the second ammendment. Also do you feel more worried about youre chidren than ever before?
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Postby Mersh » Mon Jun 26, 2000 6:56 pm

i, personally, do not own any firearms, however, my father does. one of them was my grandfathers before it became my fathers. i am not opposed to defending yourself with firearms, and i believe that it is justifiable. however, i do believe that the 72 hour wait when purchacing guns is a good thing, we don't want physcotic people with a criminal record owning a .45 do we? i am pro firearms.
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Postby Shadowfax » Mon Jun 26, 2000 8:08 pm

I aint got one, never had one. I also live the southern part of the US, which really makes me odd.
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Postby Mersh » Mon Jun 26, 2000 8:11 pm

having guns is not uncommon where i live, but there are those who don't own them... i mean, come on, most people think that everyone in kentucky has guns (that is a false assumption, only about 78\% of em do)
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Postby Elmtree » Mon Jun 26, 2000 8:53 pm

Don't have one. Doubt I ever will, unless some horrible collapse of civilization occurs and I have to hunt my own McCheeseburgers. <BR> <BR>I have kids, and would be terrified to have a gun in the house. The chance of my kids hurting themselves with the gun seems to me to be much greater than me successfully "defending" my family from a crazed intruder. <BR> <BR>I can't say I'm totally against guns, or for "gun control", but on a personal level they make me reeeeeaaaal nervous. I don't want one in my house. <BR> <BR>I live in the N.E. United States, and until recently lived in one of the USAs largest cities (in a fairly low income area).
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Postby Nienna » Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:08 pm

Like Elmtree, I wouldn't have one because it wouldn't be very effective with all the safety precautions we would have to take because of the kids. A locked, unloaded gun kept in a safe two floors from where you are just isn't going to help much when there's an intruder a few feet from the foot of your bed. Besides, we have poor old Pippin (my dog) to protect us - ha! <BR> <BR>I don't believe in many of the proposed gun regulations, mostly because I think they're pretty useless in the long run. <BR> <BR>
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Postby mer » Mon Jun 26, 2000 10:29 pm

I don't have any guns- I have a preschool in my house. If I didn't, I wouldn't mind having one. <BR>Mersh- my sister lives in KY and she carries one in a holster like a cowboy. <BR>My dad had guns when I was growing up. He used them for hunting. Also, we had a rooster that would get on the deck outside my parents' bedroom and crow every morning. One morning my dad shot it. <BR> <BR> <BR>
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Postby PingUnderTheMountain » Mon Jun 26, 2000 10:48 pm

*pictures someone stalking a McCheeseburger through the woods* Lol! <BR> <BR>I don't own a gun, and I won't for a few reasons. One is the idea of having one with kids in the house. My dad was a paramedic in his younger years and wouldn't put up with guns in the house, because he'd seen so many people killed or seriously injured with "unloaded" guns. the risk there is very great. <BR> <BR>Perhaps, if I'm ever a single woman on my own in a big city, I'll have one, but only if I make myself go and practice every week. Right now, I'd be as much a danger to myself as anyone else. I'd also be rather concerned about the gun falling into the enemy's hands. I'd rather spend my time and money on self defense classes and big dogs. It seems as good a defense as my own gun. <BR> <BR>I don't know about gun control. I mean, we already have laws, but a lot of them are ignored or not really enforced. A lot of the "crazed killers" have their guns illegally already, like the kids at Columbine, but that doesn't stop the shooting. I think money might be better spent enforcing the current laws, but there's another problem. <BR> <BR>Most of those who go on shooting rampages are either not balanced or carry massive grudges, or both. In a country where psychological health is generally not part of a company's health plan, where depression and other mental diseases are more shunned than understood, is this to be wondered at? <BR> <BR>As for "disarming the populace," I don't see it that way. The government is so mired in red tape that the idea of a gov't-wide conspiracy is laughable, imho. Of course, I find conspiracy theories in general laughable. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <BR> <BR>Just my two cents. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Magpie Jen » Mon Jun 26, 2000 11:28 pm

While visiting Palm Springs in California, a friend of mine and I went into the neighbourhood sports store to buy some hiking boots. We're both Canadian. <BR> <BR>We found the shoes and came to the front of the store. We stopped. We stared like shocked tourists. I mean, we knew Americans bought guns. We'd both been in the States many many times before. But we'd never actually seen them for sale. In fact, we'd never seen a gun outside of TV/movies or on the hip of a policeman. <BR> <BR>There were so many. In Palm Springs. It was this wierd defining moment. My friend is from Quebec (I'm from Alberta) and if you know anything about Canadian politics you'll know that Quebec and English Canada have their differences, but at that moment we both knew we sure weren't American. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Mablung » Tue Jun 27, 2000 1:27 am

Nienna, I've lived in countries where gun regulations similar to many of those proposed in the US have an effect - they are not useless, not even in the long run. In fact, I can't think of any place where gun laws haven't worked towards their intention. <BR> <BR>But that won't help if people make up their mind before trying. <BR> <BR>
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Postby Adam Weishaupt » Tue Jun 27, 2000 3:20 am

i have a boatload of guns. shotguns, rifles and pistols. i have them because they are fun, pretty to look at, help me teach my child respect for fire arms, and if i need one in a pinch, i have one. <BR> <BR>i can take my favorite rifle apart, clean it, and reassemble it while blind folded. big weapon fan here.
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Postby Alatar » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:39 am

I own a 20 gauge, 22gauge/over and under rifle; and a snub nosed 44 magnum pistol. These were given to me by my farther when I was around the age of 18. He made me take the Hunters Safety Training Courses and the guns are licensed. My father also taught me to have a great respect for firearms and that they are ,obviously, not toys or something to be taken lightly. <BR> <BR>I haven't fired them in years, and I probably won't for a long time; but I do keep them clean and oiled, and take care of them. I believe the respect my father taught me for guns at such a young age gave me a much deeper respect for our gun policy here in America. <BR> <BR>By the way, I am very much in favor of a waiting period for anyone who wants to purchase any weapon, rifles, pistols, to do a background and criminal history check before purchase. And I am not a member of the NRA. Those people scare me a little.
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Postby helpingfriendlybook » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:44 am

My brother owns a gun. I don't know how he ever got it. He has a concealed weapons permit and everything. The problem is, he's unstable. He has been hospitalized for attemted suicide and has been diagnosed as depressive and has a chemical imbalance. He is the worst kind of person to own a gun. I don't own any. I am not opposed to gun ownership. I think that the screening process should be a little better though.
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Postby The_Grey_Pilgrim » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:44 am

I don't have a gun, though I am not against them, that is unless I am looking down the barrel of one pointed at me. <BR> <BR>I have a bowl of fruit to use for my defense if ever someone should break into my house. Pretty soon I will also have a point-ED stick too.
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Postby helpingfriendlybook » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:59 am

And where exactly do you keep this "pointed stick" TGP. (Hey, you asked for it)
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Postby Shelrond » Tue Jun 27, 2000 8:08 am

I own a gun. It shoots rubber bands. <BR>AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT EITHER!! <BR><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby freaqboy » Tue Jun 27, 2000 8:33 am

<BR> Magpie Jen: Another Canuck here, from BC, and it's the same thing over here. I've only seen guns for sale once... there's a hock shop here with a big sign out front: "GUNS/KNIVES/JEWELLERY"... <BR> So lemme guess, one stop shopping? For the price of one gun and one bullet, it's all you can carry? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> It never made sense to me... <BR> <BR> Just a thought though... Should owning a gun be a RIGHT or a PRIVILEDGE?(Sp) Should some guy who's got a history of violent behaviour and an attempted murder or two still have a right to buy and carry guns? <BR>
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Postby The_Grey_Pilgrim » Tue Jun 27, 2000 9:08 am

HFB, <BR> <BR>My point-ED stick references was an allusion to a Monty Python skit. Not an allusion to my manliness.<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby helpingfriendlybook » Tue Jun 27, 2000 9:17 am

Your manliness is an illusion (j/k)<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Shelrond » Tue Jun 27, 2000 9:19 am

And my manliness is an ALLUSION! <BR><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Bard_von_Dal » Tue Jun 27, 2000 9:22 am

My family doesn't own any guns, although, on the whole we are not opposed to them. When I'm an adult and all, I might consider getting a gun, for small-time hunting and trap-shooting (tried it once at a friend's house... great fun.) I don't think I would ever buy a gun for protection. The slight protection it might provide my own life is not, IMHO, worth the risk to my loved ones. Besides, if anyone comes storming into my bedroom in the middle of the night, I can just throw money at him... hopefully he'll be satisfied<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <BR> <BR>I would spare no expense to save my neck<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Arthedain » Tue Jun 27, 2000 10:45 am

I have a 5 shell, pump action shotgun. It will be used onany uninvited intruders in my house. The kids are trained in the use of guns, and the proper respect thereof. Fortunatly, I had only one call to use it, and the universal language of the 'click-click' of a shell being chambered was all it took for the thief to surrender. <BR> <BR>As for Amendments that are outdated....I would say the 16th amendment is. <BR> <BR>There is a nice process that can be done to repeal an amendment to the American Constitution. It is called 'Constitutional Amendment' One would have to go through the process of passing Congress and be ratified by 3/4 of the states to take effect. It takes an Amendment to repeal an Amendment (Example: Alcohol prohibition)
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Postby Axordil » Tue Jun 27, 2000 11:11 am

Having looked down the wrong end of a shotgun before, I must nevertheless confess a love-hate, or perhaps more accurately, fascination-revulsion relationship with guns. I don't own any. Since the person holding the gun on me was a girlfriend, I have an aversion to having them in the house--they're unforgiving. But there is something alluring about going out to a range et al and shooting them... <BR> <BR>That being said, I do or have owned a lot of muscle-powered implements of destruction over the years, esp. swords. Maybe I just like the symbolism better. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <BR> <BR>PS My best friend owns 6 or 7, so we average out.
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Postby Slaine » Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:46 pm

Mersh, what checks are actually done(could you find out,this is a report of mine, and I would eternally be grateful. Cheers.
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Postby Slaine » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:00 pm

Bard_von_Dal, you are to be commended on that attitude of course, thoughlets hope it never gets any worse.OUR PRAYERS.
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Postby DopeDragon » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:02 pm

I don`t own a gun ....I just need the posts<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <BR>Hey Sláine your Gaylord topic is sizzling at the minute I was reading it for ages..."touché"
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Postby The_Grey_Pilgrim » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:07 pm

As I have said I don't own a gun, but there is a song by Charlie Daniels that has a verse in that I think a lot of people would agree with, it is from a song called SIMPLE MAN. <BR> <BR>Now I'm the kind of guy who wouldn't harm a mouse, <BR>But if I catch somebody breakin' in my house, <BR>I got a 12 guage shotgun waitin' on the other side. <BR> <BR>So don't go pushin' me against my will, <BR>I don't want to hafta fight you but I darn sure will, <BR>So if you don't want trouble then just pass me on by. <BR> <BR>Recently my wife asked me about whether we should get a gun while she is home alone with the kids and it is something that we may be looking into. However, we have a cop living next door to us and as a result there are a lot of cruisers driving down our street at night. I am also becoming friend with some of these guys.
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Postby Slaine » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:33 pm

Dopedragon, where the fook have you been man?
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Postby strider- » Tue Jun 27, 2000 6:34 pm

Another Canadian here....<b>Magpie Jen</b> on the East Coast you can get a gun at Canadian Tire...is this NOT the case everywhere else? Only rifles and shotguns. You have to go to a gun shop for a hand gun and I myself have never been to one. My significant other (who I should give a nickname to since it's not fair to post theirs while not posting my own LOL - lets go with Fisher) Fisher has an antique .22, a shotgun and a 3030 Rifle. They are locked in a closet in a fire proof gun case. There have always been guns around our house - however it seemed like they didn't exist until Hunting season when I was a kid. We never knew where guns were kept as kids. For all I knew they magically appeared in October <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. <BR>More legislation does little to control the criminal element - it drives it further underground. Criminals do not have the waiting period <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>, though I think background checks are brilliant and it's too bad you couldn't issue an IQ test while they were getting their F.A.C. I think a better course would be to strictly enforce the laws we already have. In my opinion not enough emphasis on safety and safe handling with responsible gun ownership is an enormous problem that's hard to manage...I do feel bad for the legislators in a way. <BR>Fisher is a "boy scout", by the book type where guns are concerned. He is diligent to a fault with safety and storage and conservation. We do not have children but have family visit a lot and the kids never even get to see the cabinet or inside the closet! I know it may seem primal to feel comfort knowing they're there - but we live in a rural area with neighbors that aren't terribly close and a forest behind us. <BR> <BR>BTW I'm a much better target shooter than he is!
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Postby Slaine » Wed Jun 28, 2000 3:33 pm

Ranger; what do you favor for in -door close quarter defence, stopping power. Not that it matters to me as a British citizen, as I no longer have the right to use any thing but defensive, reasonable force( harsh words). To me if a person decides that he wants to illegally invade my house with the intention of God know's what all kinds of skelly things on his mind, I want to be in possession of a reliable defence stategy that works every-time. Given that I can no longer confront intruders with the large bore grin of a .454 Casull, what do you suggest. I can't get my pennsylvania rifle to point in a hurry, and harsh words' are not enough <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> I expect some "good" ones here!!!!!!!!<img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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