How do you pronounce Gandalf?

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Postby pilot1 » Thu Jul 12, 2001 12:52 pm

How do you pronounce Gandalf?
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu Jul 12, 2001 5:36 pm

A good question.<BR><BR>Gandalf is an Old Norse name. It means "wand-elf."<BR><BR>If it were pronounced as in Old Norse, the "f" would be pronounced "v."<BR><BR>On the other hand, if it were Old Norse, every time Gandalf was the subject of a sentence, the name would have an "r" on the end: "Gandalfr."<BR><BR>Nobody is going to sue you if you pronounce the "f" as an "f."
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Postby Eluchil » Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:28 pm

The 'a's should probably both be pronounced as in "father", wouldn't you agree roac (since I don't know Norse <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> )
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Postby roaccarcsson » Thu Jul 12, 2001 7:47 pm

Yes. And the accent is on the first syllable -- not that I imagine anybody ever said it the other way.
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Postby Almacundo/*Auirandos » Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:45 pm

roaccarcsson--Hmmm...a whole new area for litagation, faulty pronunciations. I foresee class-action suits.
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Postby jallan » Sat Jul 21, 2001 8:34 pm

Tolkien pronounces it [gændælf] in the introduction to his recording of the "Verse of the Ring", that is using the standard <i>a</i> in English <i>cat</i> [kæt].<BR><BR>But of course Tolkien pronounces <i>Sauron</i> as [soron] instead of the supposedly correct [sauron] in his recording of the "Eagle's Song". <BR><BR>So, make what you will of that ...<BR><BR>It might be a nice point in a dramatization or film of <i>The Hobbit</i> to have Bilbo pronounce it as [gændælf] and the Dwarves as [gåndålv], that is, if accents of some kind are given to the Dwarves.
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Postby Vegan » Sat Jul 21, 2001 9:33 pm

The pronunciation guide says that "f" at the end of a word is pronounced "v"<BR><BR>But is "Gandalf" a Westron word, since the elves use "Mithrandir"? Does the pronunciation guide only count for elvish words?
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Postby Vercelestarrioler » Sun Jul 22, 2001 5:00 am

So, It would be<BR><BR><b>GAN-Daa-LVEF</b>?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Lord V.
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Postby Vegan » Mon Jul 23, 2001 5:35 pm

I say GAHN-dahlv
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Postby jallan » Thu Jul 26, 2001 10:57 am

In Old Norse Gandalf would be pronounced [gåndålv], or if you prefer pseudo-English spelling phonetics <i>gahndahlv</i>.<BR><BR>Of course most of the Frankish and Gothic type names used by the Took Hobbits would also would have been pronounced in a similar way in our world at the same period, with <i>a</i> similarly sounded and written <i>f</i> pronounced as <i>v</i> between vowels and in some other positions.<BR><BR>But presumably the Shire pronunciations are considered to be Anglicized (just as the pronunciations of the supposed true names in languages of the Vales of Anduin might have been somewhat Westronized), and the name <i>Gandalf</i> would be similarly Anglicized in pronunciation<BR><BR>Hence, J.R.R. Tolkien's pronunciation on the recordings as [gændælf] or, if you prefer pseudo-English spelling phonetics, <i>gandalf</i>, with <i>a</i> as in <i>cat</i> [kæt] not as in <i>father</i> [fåðr].
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Postby arcados » Thu Jul 26, 2001 4:43 pm

I'm not exactly sure how it is to be pronounced (nor do I know Norse), but I, personally, pronounce it: Gandaulf. Not Gandaaooolf.<BR>Gandaulf. The first 'a' pronounced as in "cat". The second 'a' pronounced as the 'o' in on.
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Postby Curanto » Fri Jul 27, 2001 6:16 pm

Bill Weldon, one of the Tolkien Languages consultants to the forthcoming film, has published an account of his visit to the set. It includes the following relevant paragraph (concerning the two dialect coaches, Andrew Jack and Róisín Carty:<BR><BR>"Sindarin and Quenya are, however, only two of the languages used in the film, and probably the easiest to get right. Archaic English, Old English, and Norse words are common, and Andrew and Róisín are clear on which is which, and on the rules for each. It takes tremendous vigilance on their part, nonetheless, when there are over fifty speaking parts and dialog may be recorded on as many as three sets simultaneously. As an example, there is a natural tendency for English speakers to darken the second "a" in "Gandalf" and swallow the "l" (so that is sounds more like "Gandoff"). They are determined that it will not happen."<BR><BR>I read this as saying that the film has decided on a pronunciation of /gændælf/. <BR>
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Postby jallan » Sun Jul 29, 2001 11:29 am

And that pronunciation certainly makes sense!<BR><BR>They can answer any critic with "Tolkien pronounced it that way and you can hear it yourself on the recordings!" What more is needed.<BR><BR>I would wager that many Tolkien fans are going to make fools of themselves when the film appears with claims that a pronunciation is wrong on the film because it happens not to be what they and a few people they know happen to use.
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Postby Vegan » Sun Jul 29, 2001 8:35 pm

jallan:<BR>Recordings of Tolkien reading excerpts are not pronunciational canon. Tolkien made huge pronunciation errors all the time and they're not even consistent with each other. Remember, Tolkien was not a native speaker of Quenya; what you hear from his mouth will many times be "a native English speaker speaking Quenya." It doesn't matter that he invented the language himself, he made mistakes because he didn't speak it all the time. The pronunciation guidelines that he WROTE DOWN are what count.
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Postby Elrohir16 » Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:28 am

Yes, but he had a point, only a minute group of people actually KNOW how to pronounce names, words, Quenya, Sindarin, etc... and noone is gonna make a fool of themself by complaining I doubt.
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Postby jallan » Thu Aug 02, 2001 2:36 pm

That JRRT undoubtedly pronounces Elvish with a pronounced English accent on occasion doesn't justify ignoring the evidence found in the recordings. The recordings can be used to aid in interpreting Tolkien's written instructions and in some case supplement them.<BR><BR>The question here is partly whether the name <i>Gandalf</i> should be pronounced as a foreign name in Tolkien's translation system, or a translated-Westronized name like the Gothic and Frankish names used by the Tooks and some other upper-class Hobbits to be pronounced as natural in English regardless of origin.<BR><BR>In <i>Unfinished Tales</i> in the chapter "The Istari" Tolkien, after referring to his adoption of the name <i>Gandalf</i> from the <i>Völuspá</i>, continues:<br><br><< <i></i>Since the name is attributed to 'the North' in general, <i>Gandalf</i> must be supposed to be a Westron name, but one made up of elements not derived from Elvish tongues.<i></i> >><br><br>This points to a translated-Westron pronunciation rather than authentic Old Norse pronunciation. Tolkien's own pronunciation on the recordings agrees.<BR><BR>Another example from the recordings: <i>Isengard</i> is pronounced by Tolkien Anglicized as [aizengard], that is with the intial "Is" pronouced like the English word <i>eyes</i>. This agrees with Tolkien's account in his "Guide to the Names in <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>". There Tolkien explains that <i>Isengard</i> and <i>Isenmouthe</i><br><br><< <i></i>... were intended to represent translations into the Common Speech of the Elvish names <i>Angrenost</i> and <i>Carach Angren</i>, but ones made at so early a date that at the period of the tale they had become archaic in form and their original meanings were obscured.<i></i> >><br><br>So it is pronounced as natural in English.
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Postby calentauristar » Tue Aug 21, 2001 3:35 am

well i pronounce it like a german name<BR><BR>for those who can´t speak german....<BR><BR>
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