Blonde Elves

What do you think of Tolkien on the silver screen...? Whether Bakshi, Jackson, Amazon, BBC radio play, or whoever else, come on in and discuss your reflections, opinions, and memories...

Postby Aerin » Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:10 pm

Okay, now it's getting a little ridiculous. I was fine with Legolas being blonde, just cause he looks so <b>good</b> that way! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> Then Celeborn, when I saw his pic, because he had "silvery" hair. (I'm not even touching on the females.) But check out Decipher's Elven people, and they're ALL blonde! What gives???
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:16 pm

Maybe they decided there are no Sindarin Elves in Middle Earth after all, just Exiles. And we can pretend for the moment that all Noldor are of the House of Finwe. Finwe's second wife, I might add. Feanor? Never heard of him.<BR><BR>Of course, then they should all be speaking Quenya, and we know for a fact everyone speaks Sindarin, but no one but us rabid fans would notice that, so it doesn't matter. We're the only ones who would notice Legolas is supposed to be dark-haired, too.<BR><BR>Actually, I'm slowly comming around to the idea of Legolas being blond. He really does look like an Elf. <b>What is happining to me?!?!</b> I'm betraying my Purist morals! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <BR><BR>--Nienna
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Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:26 pm

Most (if not all) of the Rivendell Elves are dark-haired.
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Postby Glothiniel » Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:37 pm

Yes, Nienna, come, come to the darkside!<BR><BR>Gloth Vader
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Postby Ciaran_Gabriel » Wed Dec 05, 2001 10:52 pm

Not all the elves I've seen have been blonde...and Celeborn looks like he has silver hair to me...
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Postby finarfin » Wed Dec 05, 2001 11:09 pm

Gloth Vader! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Breogan » Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:19 am

Celeborn looks like a total pansy to be exact, IMHO, of course. What's with his hair, clothes, his look in general?!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif"border=0><BR>Compare him to his Queen Galadriel, or to Elrond of Rivendell... it's just pathetic.<BR>I may not agree with the way they've depicted the elves all the way, in some cases they get it right, in some other's like Celeborn's... a TOTAL NO-NO.<BR>I would love to see, at least, one red-haired elf...<BR>Anyway, I'll enjoy the film a 100\%!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Aerin, see ye at the Goth Guild!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0><BR>Breogán, <i>the dark elf maiden</i>
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Postby Morrigan » Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:33 am

Maybe I'm the only one here, but I always pictured Legolas as blonde. This was before I read the Silmarillion or anything Tolkien besides LotR and the Hobbit. I figured he would be blonde because his father was.<BR><BR>I also always saw the Teleri as silver haired (Look at Thingol and Celeborn), the Noldor dark haired and the Vanyar and Nandor blonde (with some exceptions to each or these rules). I'm probably wrong, but whatever!<BR><BR>Nienna: Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I usually am), but didn't Sindarin replace Quenya as the main spoken elvish language in Middle-Earth when Thingol banned it?<BR><BR>Breogán: I'd <i>love</i> to see some redheaded elves too!
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:30 pm

<i>Nienna: Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I usually am), but didn't Sindarin replace Quenya as the main spoken elvish language in Middle-Earth when Thingol banned it?</i><BR><BR>My point exactly. If all the Elves are Exiles, there <i>is</i> no Sindarin because there aren't any Sindarin Elves. Therefore they should all be speaking Quenya.<BR><BR>PJ needs to make up his mind. Either most of the Elves are Sindarin, in which case they should both be speaking Sindarin and have dark hair, or all the Elves are Noldor, in which case they are allowed to be blond (some of them) but have to speak Quenya. He can't have predominantly blond Elves who speak predominantly Sindarin.<BR><BR>Except, of course, it seems that he can. And we're the only ones who notice. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0><BR><BR>--Nienna, upset about not having a sig
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Postby Morrigan » Thu Dec 06, 2001 4:44 pm

<i>If all the Elves are Exiles, there is no Sindarin because there aren't any Sindarin Elves. Therefore they should all be speaking Quenya.</i><BR><BR>Well, there are the Nandorian Wood-elves too.<BR><BR>I always assumed that the whole 'elves speak Sindarin because of Thingol' thing might have carried on after his death. Here's a bit in the Silmarillion that makes me think this is right:<BR><BR><i>'And it came to pass even as Thingol had spoken; for the Sindar heard his word, and thereafter throughout Beleriand they refused the tongue of the Noldor, and shunned those that spoke it aloud; but the Exiles took the Sindarin tongue in all their daily uses, and the High Speech of the West was spoken only by the lords of the Noldor among themselves.'</i>
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Postby GlamdringsFire » Thu Dec 06, 2001 5:25 pm

i always pictured Legolas as blonde way back in 7th grade when i trudged through LOTR the first time... and Elves seem naturally blonde to me... i can't really even see them as dark haired... strange... i guess i'm corrupted...
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Thu Dec 06, 2001 7:18 pm

Sorry, I seem to not be making myself clear.<BR><BR>Ok, my point is: If PJ's Elves are all blond, they are necessarily all Noldor (the only blond Elves were Vanyar, and of the Noldor only the children of Finwe's second wife, Indis, who was Vanya). Sindarin Elves have dark hair --> the reason Luthien, fairest of all the Children of Illuvatar, was dark-haired and not blond. Elwe Thingol was Teler/Sindar. Also the reason Arwen is not blond, besides the fact she's supposed to resemble Luthien --> the majority of the Elven blood (she's only 3/16 human, remember) in her is Sindarin: the only Noldo ancestor she had was Idril. (Idril was blond.)<BR>If all the Elves of Middle Earth are Noldor, they are all Exiles. If all Elves of Middle Earth are Exiles, <i>there are no Sindarin Elves in existance</i>. This means there was no Thingol, no mandate, and no Sindarin language. If all the Elves of Middle Earth are Noldor, they should all be speaking Quenya, because Sindarin as a language does not exist.<BR><BR>Now, we know PJ has not done this. The Elvish language spoken most in the movie is Sindarin, although I believe there are parts in Quenya: in Lorien, for example; Galadriel, as a Noldo, knows Quenya. In fact the largest extant Quenya corpus is her song Namarie, from FotR (and I truly hope they haven't cut that out, although the probably have).<BR>Because PJ has chosen to keep the Sindarin Elves in existance (it would be kind of hard to cut them out completely, what with Legolas and all), which we know he has because they speak Sindarin, he therefore should not have very many blond Elves. A few here and there are alright -- Glorfindel, for example, was blond (and Noldo), even though he's not in the blasted movie; also there were a few Exiles still remaining with Galadriel in Lorien. But the majority of Elves in ME at the end of the Third Age were Sindarin, even in Lorien and Imladris.<BR><BR>And Sindarin Elves <i><b>have dark hair</b></i>, for the umpteeumpth time. (That was directed at PJ, not at you, Morrigan dearest.)<BR><BR>Does this all make sense?<BR><BR>--Nienna<BR><BR>PS There were Nandorin Elves, commenly called Silvan Elves, in ME at the end of the Third Age -- Thranduil's realm was primarily composed of Silvan Elves, although Thranduil (and hence his son Legolas) was Sindarin. However, Nandorin/Silvan was no longer spoken; the Silvan Elves, like the Noldor before them, adopted Sindarin. <i>By the end of the Third Age, the Silvan tongues had probably ceased to be spoken in the two regions that had importance at the time of the War of the Ring: Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in northern Mirkwood. All that survived of them in the records was a few words and several names of persons and places.</i> (Unfinished Tales: "Of The Silvan Elves and Their Speech").
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Postby Ril » Thu Dec 06, 2001 8:14 pm

><i>And Sindarin Elves have dark hair, for the umpteeumpth time.</i><BR><BR>What about Thranduil?<BR><BR>My head hurts now.... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby ElfStar » Thu Dec 06, 2001 10:05 pm

You're all mad! Mad I say!
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Postby Morrigan » Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:09 am

Actually Nienna dear, you <i>are</i> making yourself quite clear. I'm just very bored and I wanted something to talk/argue about. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I can't say I agree with you in everything you wrote and I guess that doesn't matter since Tolkien is sometimes fuzzy in his writings or he writes something completely contrary to things already written. So if PJ makes any mistakes with the 'fuzzy stuff' I guess he has an excuse.<BR><BR>So far as I have seen PJ's elves are all either blonde or dark-haired (except Celeborn). It's half and half in the Counsil of Elrond (four blonde, four dark), the elves of Rivendell seem to almost all be dark-haired and the elves of Lorien blonde (the only elf in Lorien who Tolkien gives a hair color to is blonde, so I don't mind PJ making Haldir and Co. that way). PJ has, as I see it, made the Silvan Elves blonde and the rest dark-haired. But for all we know the reason could be a lack of dark wigs or lack dark-haired elvish looking actors! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR><i>The Elvish language spoken most in the movie is Sindarin, although I believe there are parts in Quenya</i>. True. There are only three lines of Quenya (that I know of) in the film and the Istari speak two of them (the Moria Gate spell and Caradhras spell), Elrond says the third (a farewell). I haven't heard of <i>Namarie</i> being in the film.<BR><BR>There. Do with this what you will... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Manwe_Sulimo » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:17 am

Rmks/1. If Thranduil was a Sindarin elf, and Sindarin elves are dark-haired (brunette?), then it would stand to reason that Legolas -- as Thranduil's son -- *should* have brunette hair IF Mrs. Thranduil was a Sindarin elf as well.<BR>2. But, blonde or brunette, I like the look of Orlando Bloom as Legolas. Could they have dyed his hair brunette for the role? Well, if they can make prosthetic feet for the hobbits, I'm sure they can dye Orlando Bloom's hair. But, really, I think we're splitting hairs here; this is certainly not the hill to dye on. <grin!><BR>3. It's kinda like Liv Tyler as Arwen... she's got an elvish look to her. Now, as to the question of whether or not either of them can actually _act_... that remains to be seen.<BR>4. On a somewhat different note, there is much talk about Peter von Jacksonvich and how true he has been to the *themes* of the story. Boy, if that doesnt make me wonder... That leaves a lot of doors wide open. But, I just read two of the new reviews of FOTR posted to the main page (both from AICN), and -- I swear I am not making this up -- I they brough tears to my eyes. I was undoubtedly encouraged by what the reviewers had to say.<BR>5. Does that mean I'm happy about Arwen at the Ford? No. I am a sexist, and I rather enjoy the fact that Arwen kept her narrow deriere at home knitting a banner for her man. <smile!> Besides, it completely omits the contest of wills that Frodo tried to have with the Morgul Lord. Or Gandalf and Saruman squaring off? Of course not! Gandalf's and Saruman's powers were more subtle and I think that Gandalf was more taken by surprise and treachery than he was overwhelmed by magic bolts of lightning. Or the hokey 'I dub thee the Fellowship of the Ring' line rumoured to be uttered by Hugo Weaving? No. For goodness sake... Even a borderline moron could figure out that the Nine Walkers are the Fellowship.<BR>6. I started out as absolute a purist as I thought realistically possible. But, as time goes on and I actually *see* some of the finished product, I think that this movie, and the overall quality of casting, acting, costuming, scenery, special effects, and musical scoring is going to overwhelm the majority of us who are inclined to think that this movie wont measure up to our highest expectations.<BR>7. Manwe sends//<BR>BT
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Postby Gungnir » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:27 am

And you wonder why people label Tolkien fans "anally-retentive geeks"?
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Postby Ratatoskur » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:10 am

Uh people, genetics are a little more complicated than that!!<BR>
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Fri Dec 07, 2001 6:01 pm

I am perfectly aware of that, Ratatoskur. If you did not know, I am currently in school to be a geneticist. But my point is, the only blond genes that supposedly exist in Elves were in the Vanyar, and thus the Noldor who were decended from Finwe and Indis (a Vanya). If there are only dark-haired genes in a population, no one is going to pop up blond. And that's not even dealing with dominance.<BR><BR>Which leads to another point. Morrigan, you mention that PJ seems to have made the Silvan Elves blond and everyone else dark haired. I'm not so sure of that -- while a percentage of the population of Lorien (whice seems to be inhabited by only blond Elves in the movie) was Silvan, a larger percentage was Sindarin. And Legolas, the most notorious blond-PJ-Elf, is Sindarin. (Or at least as far as we know he is pure Sindarin; it is never mentioned who Thranduil's wife was, or the wife of Oropher, Thranduil's father. They were, however, a royal family, and as such would tend to marry within their own kind, that is, one of the Sindar they had brought with them to Greenwood.)<BR>At any rate the purity of the Sindarin blood in Lorien, or, for that matter, in Legolas, is of no concern, because neither the Silvan Elves nor the Sindar had blond hair. As stated before, the only Elves with blond hair were Vanyar, or Noldor decended from Vanyar. Thus the only Elves with blond hair in Middle Earth were Exiles of the House of Finwe, such as Galadriel. Both Silvan Elves (those that had left the march of the Eldar towards the Sea, either for love of the land around them or for fear of the Valar) and Sindarin Elves (those that stayed behind to look for Elwe Thingol) were Teleri, people of Elwe and Olwe. Teleri, of course, were not Vanyar, and therefore did not have blond hair. <i><b>Only Exiles decended from Vanyar should have blond hair.</b></i><BR><BR>But PJ has apparently decided that Tolkien's Elves should have blond hair because Elves look better with blond hair. I don't entirely blame him -- Legolas at least looks damn good with blond hair (Haldir looks really stupid). But, technically, most of the Elves in the movies should be brunette, because the majority of the Exiles were either dead or had fled over the Sea.<BR><BR>I'm not anal-retentive. Really. I swear. Ok, maybe I am about language. And hair color. And -- oh, hell, I admit, I'm anal-rententive over everything dealing with Elvish migration, genetics, or linguistic variation. And where Arwen belongs during the War of the Rings. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>--NiennaS, being anal-rententive, as normal<BR><BR>PS <i>We're</i> mad, ElfStar? Didn't you, at two seperate times, admit you were both Orlando Bloom and a dark-haired Sindarin Elf who was close personal freinds with Legolas? I don't think you should be talking about degrees of madness. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>PPS Orlando Bloom is actually a brunette, Manwe Sulimo. (Did you know my cousin is named Manwe? He's rather full of himself.) He's wearing a wig. Which means what they <i>could</i> have done was just let him use his own hair and not have to bother with a wig or hair dye, but whatever. I do admit he's cuter blond. But that might be that I've been in love with the character of Legolas since I was eight. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Morrigan » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:56 pm

Ooooh, this conversation is getting interesting! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>I'm not a geneticist, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn!<BR><BR>Tolkien didn't seem to be all to interested in genetics. Even if he was, he still made Thranduil blonde (in The Hobbit: '<i>a woodland king with a crown of leaves upon his <u>golden hair</u></i>') which means there's a chance Legolas is too.<BR><BR>I cannot believe Tolkien made all elves dark-haired except the Vanyar and their descendants. What about Celeborn? He has silver hair - Tolkien never made mention of any silver-haired people (not that I remember at the moment, anyway). So is Celeborn a freak of nature or something? (Somehow I don't think Elves have 'freaks of nature' <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>) Tolkien also makes his elves have hair exclusively one color. He never has any blondish-brown haired elves or anything like that when their <i>should</i> be.<BR><BR>My gripe about PJ's blonde Silvan Elves isn't that they're blonde, but that their blonde with black eyebrows! That just looks wierd...<BR><BR>And I have to disagree about Haldir looking stupid. I mean he <i>does</i> look stupid in that official site cast picture, but I found one he looks rather good in. I'd have to look for the pic, but he seriously doesn't look bad. Of course he and Legolas still suffer from Elvish dark eyebrow syndrome! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Anyway, that's my rant for today! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>- Morrigan<BR><BR>P.S. Nienna, what true Tolkien fan isn't anal-retentive?! And who wasn't in love with Legolas after reading LotR?! Though with me it extended to <i>every single elf</i> (except Feanor and his sons, I can think of several words to describe them and none of them are appropriate) Imagine my delight in reading <u>The Silmarillion</u>! Elves galore! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR>
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Postby Aerin » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:14 pm

Huh, and here I was just doing a short rant! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Actually, I think Legolas looks better with dark eyebrows, because it serves to make him look more mysterious and/or powerful, not to mention just plain HOT!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0><BR><BR>But I do think that most of the Elves would've looked better if they were dark-haired.<BR><BR>And yeah, why can't there be a red-headed Elf or two in there??<BR><BR>P.S. Whaddaya mean, Tolkien fans are anally-retentive geeks? Isn't everyone like this? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby Morrigan » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:40 pm

Aerin: Tolkien fans <i>have</i> to be anal-retentive... but whether or not they're geeks I leave to you! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:53 pm

I'll agree to that, Morrigan. Tolkien was certainly not into genetics. (And this conversation <i>is</i> getting interesting. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>) Of course, genetics was was not the commen knowledge in the 1950s it is today, nor was there the ammount of knowledge we have today.<BR><BR>Ok, now I maintain that the mention of Thranduil being blond is invalid, because the Hobbit cannot be considered canon when compared to later works. Tolkien had not yet evolved his theories of Elven characteristics and probably decided that Thranduil was blond because Elves are normally blond (why PJ, of course, has made half his Elves blond). In the more updated version, I believe Thranduil would have been dark-haired. He is, after all, Sindarin. And, for the primary reason that Oropher ruled a collection of Silvan Elves <i>because</i> he disliked the Exile "intrusion" into Lorien (see Unfinished Tales: "Of the Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves"), it is highly unlikely that Legolas had Noldor ancestors.<BR><BR>And it is worthy of mention that Tolkien's Elves do not seem to exibit incomplete dominance: their hair is either dark (Luthien's, Aradhel's) or blond (Galadriel's, Idril's), not anything in between. Which precludes any brown-haired Elves. Red-haired Elves also seem to be illegal. Sorry. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0> Silver haired Elves seem to be an aberation put in by Tolkien because he thought it was cool, and have no relation to genetics. Or Elves' hair turns silver when they are very old, as they seem to grow beards when they are very old (cf. Cirdan).<BR><BR>Now, I, personally, think the blond hair with dark eyebrows thing is cute, but that is probably because I have blond hair (a gift from my Dutch mother) and dark eyebrows (a legacy from my Welsh father). So I'm used to it. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> Legolas and Co. probably have dark eyebrows because they're really brunettes, and nobody bothered to dye their eyebrows. If they can do such a thing naturally. Although I'm sure if anyone can dye someone's eyebrows so it looks natural, it's the people who do makeup for movies. And PJ's makeup crew has so far been <i>exceptional</i>. So who knows? Maybe PJ liked the look. I think it's cute. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> Except Haldir, of course.<BR><BR>--Nienna, still anal-rententive (and still in love with Legolas) <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>PS Yeah, I was in love with the other Elves first. But I heard the Sil before my parents read me LotR, so what do you expect? Finrod Felagund was always my favorite (so noble ::sniff:: ), although of Feanor's sons I always felt sorry for Maedhros. He would have been a good man (um, Elf) if it wasn't for his father and his cursed Curse.
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Postby Morrigan » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:24 pm

Well, I guess it really doesn't matter what we think because the only person who can give us the real and correct answer has been dead for some years now (*sniff* <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-crying.gif"border=0>).<BR><BR>I never said blonde hair and dark eyebrows isn't cute. 'because it is! But it's still one of those random things that big me <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> I guess the make-up people never bothered with the eyebrows, because either they thought no one would notice (yeah, right!) or they didn't want the actors to have blonde eyebrows and dark hair off set (though I don't think that would bother Orlando since he willingly had a mohawk for two years!).<BR><BR>Here's that Haldir picture I was talking about:<BR><a target=new href="http://www.fantasyplanet.cz/gfx/pictures_clanky/lotr_gal_velky_2001_10_25_9_4_10.jpg">http://www.fantasyplanet.cz/gfx/pictures_clanky/lotr_gal_velky_2001_10_25_9_4_10.jpg</a><BR><BR>I think he looks good with blonde hair, but would look better with dark. His brothers BTW look okay with blonde hair too (they look kind of snotty, though - don't ask! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0>). But that's just my humble opinion... <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>- Morrigan<BR><BR>P.S. I think Maedhros is probably the only son of Feanor who is likable. Mainly because of the friendship between him and Finrod, but what happens later in Doriath and with the Silmarils doesn't reflect well on him. I always liked Gil-galad best of the elves of the First and Second Ages (not that he's mentioned much in the First...), but I wish Tolkien had written more on him and the Last Alliance. I like Eöl too. I don't know why. I just do. Maybe because he's evil and I have a theory that evil is sexy <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0> (Feanor and his son's don't count - they're just <i>too</i> evil)
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Postby Morrigan » Thu Dec 13, 2001 8:53 pm

Watching PtME on the Sci-Fi Channel I noticed PJ had some unusual haired elves - elven red-heads!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> And a few with a lighter brown coloured hair.<BR><BR>Okay now that is definately <i>not right</i>!<BR><BR>PJ also said something about the Lorien elves being 'lighter and grey' and Rivendell elves being 'dark and green'. What?! Before that they were showing pictures of eye colours. Wierd, but I hope he's talking about clothing or something...<BR><BR>- Mo<BR>-----------------<BR>"Is the first stage of grief pure unbridled joy?" - Crow T. Robot<BR>-----------------
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Postby ElfStar » Thu Dec 13, 2001 9:25 pm

I was just kidding, Nienna. I wanted to start a good fight. <BR><BR>And i'm afraid you miss one very important detail. King Tharanduil is BLONDE! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0>
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Postby Morrigan » Thu Dec 13, 2001 9:40 pm

ElfStar: Nienna mentioned that Thranduil being blonde is '<i>invalid because the Hobbit cannot be considered canon when compared to later works</i>.'<BR><BR>Personally I don't think so, but that's just me and I'm really enamored with the idea of Thranduil being blonde <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>- Mo
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Postby NiennaSorrowing » Thu Dec 13, 2001 10:07 pm

Thanks, Morrigan, I didn't even have to point that out to him myself. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> Obvious case of you not reading my long philiological arguments, ElfStar. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>But hey, I'm glad you started this fight. There is no debate like an Elven hair-color debate, I've always said! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> And when you put language and hair-color together, I could not be more pleased. (Speaking of Elven hair-color arguments on these boards, I was laughing with Tele over the swooners on RB and mentioned that if poor Orlando Bloom ever wanted to escape from the sufficating fangirls he'd have to come over to TORC, because we seem to be the only ones around that can talk seriously. Tele then pointed out that he probably wouldn't want to come over to TORC because the first thing we'd do is jump on him for having blond hair. I do suppose he's right. Besides, I shouldn't feel too sorry for Orlando Bloom, he did ask for it. Hell, he probably enjoys it. Insane man.)<BR><BR><BR>And by the way, WHAT THE HELL IS PJ ON?????? "Light and grey" vs. "dark and green"? <b>They're all flipping Sindarin here, aren't they? With a few Silvan Elves and the remaining Exiles tossed in for good measure? IF THEY'RE ALL ORIGINALLY TELERI (the Exiles being a notable exception) THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</b> How difficult is this to grasp? I seriously hope he was talking about clothing, although from all the pics I've seen I doubt it.<BR><BR>Grrr. If there's one thing I'm anal rententive about, besides language, it's hair color. If you haven't noticed this by now, of course. <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>--NS<BR><BR>PS EOL??? How can you like Eol? He kidnapped and raped Aradhel, and then managed to kill her while trying to kill his son. He was not <i>evil</i>, he was just something I'm not allowed to say on these boards. Melkor was evil. Sauron was evil. Eol and Celegorm? They were just -censored-.<BR>And Gil-Galad always bored me. But I'm a First Age person myself. Except for Legolas, of course -- but hey, I had to like <i>someone</i> in LotR besides the two Hobbits, didn't I? <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-devil.gif"border=0> <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Aerin » Thu Dec 13, 2001 10:16 pm

I haven't seen any of the LOTR tv stuff, not since the Fox special. You're telling me that there are actually going to be some redheaded Elves in the movies?? YAY!!!!! <img src="i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>As far as the colors bit goes (lighter and gray, darker and green), maybe it IS eye-color. Okay, lighter hair (read: blond) with gray eyes, and darker hair with green eyes. Maybe?
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Postby mknepher » Thu Dec 13, 2001 10:30 pm

Sorry Breogan, but Celeborn *does* have silver hair: "They were clad wholly in white; and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold, and the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright...."<BR><BR>As far as making the Silvan elves blond - that's something I think I can live with.
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