Two Towers Questions/Answers - #7 (SPOILERS)

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Postby Nilson_The_White » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:17 pm

<i>"I come back to you now, at the turn of the tide..."</i><BR><BR><b>1. I've heard that we'll get to see Theodred's funeral, so will we also get to see parts of the battle at the river Isen?</b><BR><BR>No. And it isn't really the "funeral" we see either. It's simply a gathering of people around his grave to mourn his death. They are rather surprised to see Theoden, who is accompanyed by Gandalf. This is slightly after Grima leaves Edoras.<BR><BR>These lines are spoken while Theoden is kneeling near his son's grave,<BR>surrounded by the mourners dressed in black robes and hoods.<BR><BR><u>THEODEN:</u><BR><i>Dark have been my dreams, Gandalf.</i><BR><BR><u>GANDALF:</u><BR><i>Yet you dream no longer. You live.</i><BR><BR><u>THEODEN:</u><BR><i>But my son does not. The young die,<BR>and the old linger, withering.</i><BR><BR><u>GANDALF:</u><BR><i>There is hope yet, Theoden King.<BR>Though our doom hangs on a thread.</i><BR><BR><u>THEODEN:</u><BR><i>Theodred... how I miss him, Gandalf.</i><BR><BR>Theoden weeps at this point, and that is the end of the scene.<BR><BR><BR><b>2. Will Saruman's double-treachery be developed more fully than it was in the first film? Will it be clear that he wants the ring for himself?</b><BR><BR>Somewhat. It is revealed in his conversations with Grima that he intends on using the Ring for himself if he gets it:<BR><BR><u>SARUMAN:</u><BR><i>And I shall be more powerful than<BR>the Lord of the Rings himself.</i><BR><BR><BR><b>3. How is Wormtongue's demise depicted?</b><BR><BR>Legolas shoots him with a well-placed arrow after he pushes Saruman.
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Postby Dave_LF » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:21 pm

That's it, huh <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>. 1 and 2 sound good. 3 makes me cringe a little, but not more than the RSWD in general.
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Postby SonODrogo » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:27 pm

Hmmm......Well, I rather like Theoden and Gandalf's conversation. As for Saruman's line, it does seem rather.........campy<img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>. Seriously, it's not THAT bad, but I'd have to hear it with other dialogue to decide. Wormtongue's death is a bit disappointing, but I can't think of a good way for him to die anyway. At least his death is still by arrow.
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Postby TheFlyingButtress » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:28 pm

Well, I am not sure I am entirely comfortable with Legolas shooting Grima (but neither am I with RSWD, or cutting the Scouring, but that is another thread), as I appreciated his death at the hands of ignorant (not knowing Grima's significance or role), impetuous hobbits, before Frodo could stop them.<BR><BR>It seems a little out of character for Legolas to do this, although I understand the need for Grima's death - why not have a soldier from Theoden's guard do it? <BR><BR>
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Postby Gandalf'sMother » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:38 pm

Why in the name of God would Legolas shoot and kill an imprisoned, unarmed man? If this isn't completely opposed to the spirit of Tolkien, I don't know what is. I guess there's no mercy in PJ's world. <BR><BR>-Mother Maiar
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Postby Dave_LF » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:42 pm

I imagine Grima will be preparing to throw a javelin or shoot "Orthanc-fire" or something (for the exact reason you state. Could they be <i>that</i> blind to "the spirit of Tolkien"? ).
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Postby akallabeth » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:43 pm

Being a lover of the scouring, and especially Frodo and Saruman's interaction, all I can say is:<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>AAAAAARRRRRGRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>That of course refers to #3. <BR>
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Postby Nilson_The_White » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:44 pm

I completely agree with GM on this. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0> Dave is probably correct. It is most likely going to be a choice between shooting Grima or letting the company die.<BR><BR>(I WIN <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>)
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Postby Windfola » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:46 pm

Well, at least Eowyn doesn't kill Wormtongue as was rumored from an early draft of the script.<BR><BR>See folks! You have to look at the bright side. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Dave_LF » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:48 pm

Why is it so shocking that I might be correct, Nilson? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0> (and <i>what</i> do you win?)<BR><BR><b>Edit:</b> Oh I see; you're shocked that you agree with GM. That makes more sense <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>.
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Postby Nilson_The_White » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:56 pm

What do I win? Tele visited a SPOILER thread... I had a bet with him that he would be spoiler free until openning day. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Iavas_Saar » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:58 pm

Legolas won't shoot Grima without good reason. But if I am wrong I will be very unhappy with PJ.
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Postby Telemachos » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:04 pm

Nilson: <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif"border=0><BR><BR>GM (dundas) and me (sohcam) just finished a little discussion about the scene in question. We think we may have improved upon it.<BR><BR><i><b>Sohcamelet:</b> but it may just be that L thinks it's in self-defense<BR><b>Sohcamelet:</b> he sees a sudden move, he shoots<BR><b>Sohcamelet:</b> or it could be he guns W down and all the Rohirrim cheer<BR><b>Sohcamelet:</b> we don't know <BR><b>Sohcamelet:</b> for your sake I pray this is altered in the final cut <BR><b>Dundas86:</b> LOL. The Rohirrim all give Legolas high fives, as he trots around arrogantly.<BR><b>Sohcamelet:</b> Eomer: "You da MAN, big L!"<BR><b>Dundas86:</b> No, "You the He-Elf"<BR><b>Sohcamelet: LOL!</i>
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Postby Telemachos » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:22 pm

No, even better --<BR><BR>Legolas shoots Grima while Gandalf blasts him with a bolt of lightning from his staff (showing just how powerful Gandalf 2.0 is), and Gimli tosses a couple of axes into him while Eomer stabs him with his spear and Aragorn whacks off his arm.<BR><BR>Then Eowyn chops off his head.<BR><BR>No! Have Eowyn and Aragorn chop off his head together! This will thematically link with their earlier "duel" together and show how far their relationship has come during the course of the film.<BR><BR>Then Treebeard can eat him and Merry and Pippin can cheer (those cute little tykes!).<BR><BR>That would be best and most appropriate to Tolkien, I think.
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Postby Mammo » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:37 pm

enter brenil, stage right, wearing a red dress ......<BR><BR>ihat grimeewormtrud because he si sttooofpid!!!!!111111111111 oooeeewine iz 2 kewl and she chupped uff his uglee hed and stridfer brafed on it !!!!!111111lll////lololololololol!!<BR><BR>i fink i luv ooewinne nad i wnat to rid on er hors wen she iz drenhelom!!!11
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Postby Klonkku » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:43 pm

No. I have a reliable source, and I have the excerpt from Script. This is why Legolas shoots an arrow through Grima:<BR><BR><BR><BR>[ Grima pushes Saruman out of the balcony ]<BR><BR>Saruman: Shoot! ( he obviously shouts this out of sheer frustration of being pushed out of a balcony )<BR><BR>[ Legolas, out of confusion, shoots Grima ]
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Postby Nilson_The_White » Tue Jun 25, 2002 5:46 pm

Enter <a target=new href="http://cinescape.com/multimedia/Master_Site/Movies/Master_SiteMovies282629.jpg">Sexy Japanese Killers</a>:<BR><BR><b>Left One:</b> One hair style to rule them all<BR><b>Right One:</b> One cartoon outfit to find them<BR><b>Left One:</b> One sailor moon stance to bring them all<BR><b>Both:</b> And in the pinkness bind them
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Postby finarfin » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:10 pm

After the comments of Tele, I think we need to instill a rule that states; Mod's on caffine overdoses are not allowed to post content.
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Postby Ted » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:18 pm

I know that I only post or Code when I'm ODing on Caffene....
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Postby finarfin » Tue Jun 25, 2002 6:38 pm

Well Ted, obviously you have corrupted Tele and should be ashamed of yourself! The man's got a movie to edit! Have you ever tried to splice two little pieces of film together with glue? I thought not! Think of what you're doing to the children for God's sake!
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Postby vynaca_of_mirkwood » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:10 pm

At least it'll be a hott arrow!!!11<BR><BR>*Vynaca swoons down stairs ... on shield*<BR><BR>
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Postby The_Car_From_FOTR » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:15 pm

Grima doesn't get killed by legolas.<BR><BR>Grima gets run over by me!<BR><BR><BR>
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Postby HopeSpringsEternal » Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:26 am

Bump <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby Luinaglariel » Thu Jun 27, 2002 7:42 am

Legolas shoots Grima.<BR><BR>This deal is getting worse all the time.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Thanks anyway, Nilson.
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Postby ElfStar » Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:27 am

So it's been confirmed then that RSWD is true then? Darn.<BR><BR>Nilson, here's a question for your source: Concerned fans want to know: do Legolas and Gimli really die?<BR><BR> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0>
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Postby Dave_LF » Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:34 am

<i>So it's been confirmed then that RSWD is true then? Darn.</i><BR><BR>In an old draft, yes. Here's to hoping thing have changed! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby akallabeth » Thu Jun 27, 2002 11:46 am

<i>Then Treebeard can eat him and Merry and Pippin can cheer (those cute little tykes!).</i><BR><BR>I knew you were seriously disturbed, Tele. <BR>
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Postby ladyarcher » Thu Jun 27, 2002 6:26 pm

ok <i>if</i> Legolas does kill grima then you know that he was threatning someone...he's an elf they don't shoot people for no reason. and if he shoots him on "accident" then mr. jackson there will be hell to pay!!!
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Postby Nár » Tue Sep 03, 2002 5:26 am

Legolas kills Wormtongue?!?
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Postby RangerSmith » Tue Sep 03, 2002 6:33 am

What bothers me the most is PJ's need to repeat the titles of the movies within the movie. <BR><BR>"You shall be the fellowship of the ring"<BR>"There is a union now between the two towers"<BR>"And I shall be more powerful than the Lord of the rings himself"<BR><BR>whats next? "Look its Aragorn, its the return of the king!"<BR><BR>I think most people know which movie they are watching when they go to the theatre, it doesn't neeed to be repeated. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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