My Source has seen ITTT!!! (Spoilers)

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Postby Saranthir » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:43 am

Well, he has seen the most recent rough cut which is running at a little over three hours and is about ten days from being locked.<BR><BR>We only had a quick chat about things but he said that, in his opinion, TTT was a better film than FoTR - in his words, much better!! He said the film had time to breathe and some of the character development was very interesting. Apparently Woods' potrayal of Frodo by the end of TTT is harrowing and makes him wonder just how dark this portion of the tale will become in RoTK.<BR><BR>He felt the Battle of Helm's Deep was slightly too long and might be snipped a bit before the lock. He was concerned that showing so much violence but trying to keep that violence within PG13 boundaries sort of made things a bit numbing and repetitive. Although he admitted that some aspects of the siege and especially the incursions of the Uruks were spectacular. He really liked the Uruks who burst into the caves and the action which followed.<BR><BR>He also thought the charge of Gandalf the White into the massed ranks of Saruman's force was very impressive.<BR><BR>Treebeard was excellent when relatively static, but needs work when he moves.<BR><BR>The Wargs are undergoing plenty of work and, he assures me, look much more wolf-like than like giant Guinea pigs.<BR><BR>He said the Fell beasts were particularly good, looking ancient, evil and serpentine. There is one set of scenes involving one of these, Frodo, Sam and Gollum which he says is more spine chilling than all of the black rider material in FoTR.<BR><BR>He didn't like the Morannon, but he isn't a fan of the angular look to Sauron and his works. He thought the Oliphaunts were very good indeed, and the rampaging beast particularly impressive.<BR><BR>Arwen apparently recieves more screen time than in FoTR and is more than likely now to be in several scenes which contain Eowyn.<BR><BR>The fall of Gandalf is apparently awesome and his struggle with the Balrog epic and at times strange.<BR><BR>I can say more and I could answer a few questions, probably, but he kept his information brief in view of the fact that he saw the cut only recently.
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Postby vynaca_of_mirkwood » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:49 am

When does Arwen get to Helm's Deep?
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Postby TheFlyingButtress » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:51 am

Any news of Gollum, and his interaction with Frodo and Sam? And what do you mean by 'strange'?<BR><BR>Otherwise, it is sounding really rather good, perhaps apart from Arwen and Eowyn in the same point in time and space.
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Postby Luinaglariel » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:52 am

<i>Arwen apparently recieves more screen time than in FoTR and is more than likely now to be in several scenes which contain Eowyn.</i><BR><BR>And these are at Helm's Deep, right?<BR><BR><BR>edit -<BR><BR>P.S. Thanks so much for the report! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby dhn » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:55 am

Well, does Saruman die? And why did your source only comment on Treebeard and not the other Ents. Don't we see the siege of Isengard? How did Gollum come across? ... So many questions ... <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Feline » Tue Oct 08, 2002 6:59 am

<i>Arwen apparently recieves more screen time than in FoTR and is more than likely now to be in several scenes which contain Eowyn.</i><BR><BR>[elijah wood imitation]NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!111[/elijah wood imitation]<BR><BR>Why!? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> I was already convinced that Arwen would stay away from Helm's Deep (and Éowyn)... Is this absolutely necessary? Oh carp. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> Although I'll probably end up loving this film regardless of Arwen's whereabouts. I just need time to get used to this change. Surely PJ knows what he's doing. Doesn't he?<BR><BR>The rest sounds great, except I'm maybe a bit worried about the still unfinished Treebeard. Can't wait! <BR>
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Postby CrimsonVoodoo » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:13 am

<BR>Thanks Saranthir for the report - <BR><BR>As others have and will ask - What is Christopher Lee's fate ???<BR><BR>CrimsonVoodoo<BR>"very jazzed by Fell beast info"
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Postby Ornendil » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:14 am

Did Saruman die???
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Postby Mammo » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:14 am

still nothing on Faramir? I hope he gets his full screen time but he seems to be the forgotten man of the trailer so far <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0>
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Postby Xhen » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:16 am

The girl-girl action between Arwen and Eowyn does sound hotttt!!!111 But what I want to know is are they finally going to show the big fight between Glorfindel and Tom Bombadil that they cut out of FOTR? That's what I want to see.<BR><BR>
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Postby ElfStar » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:17 am

That was rather vague.
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Postby Gungnir » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:22 am

What do you expect, Elfstar? Sara's learned the same lesson that every astrologer knows - keep it vague and then there is less chance that subsequent events will prove you wrong.<BR><BR>The big clincher here is that no mention was made of Saruman - how could he not give any info on this hot patootie?<BR><BR>And look at this...<BR><BR><b>Arwen apparently recieves more screen time than in FoTR and is more than likely now to be in several scenes which contain Eowyn.</b><BR><BR>'More than likely' but not 'definitely'.<BR><BR>Come on Sara - put up or shut up. Some <b>definitive</b> answers, if you please.
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Postby Mithfânion » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:26 am

The Wargs are going to need a lot of work? Even now? Isn't it almost closing time? Treebeard still needs more work in the moving department? Now? I can't believe it, they've had two years.<BR><BR>In the rough cut he saw, does Arwen actually meet Eowyn, and is Aragorn also present? He should remember that I suppose <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>What happens to Saruman? <BR><BR>Was there anything in there about Elrond actually going to Lorien? Can that at least be confirmed? It would be a bonus to know who makes the call, does Elrond have a change of heart, or does our little Evenstar persuade him? <BR><BR>I'm glad the fell beasts seem to work out well, as is the scene with Gandalf and the Balrog. Did he say anything about the length of that scene? Do we see Gandalf return to Lorien for instance?<BR><BR>Cool stuff Sar. Oliphaunts!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Oh yes, what about Anduril? Was your source right all along?
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Postby ElfStar » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:27 am

Yes. When you said your source was going to view the rought cut of TTT, I expected to see some major spoilers and specifics. Instead we get vague mantions of different things. The only thing that we really didn't know already was the Fell Beast thing.
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Postby EuroGollum » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:34 am

I agree with Eflstar and Gungnir... This is awfully vague. This information could easily be manufactured looking at the latest trailer and some internet rumors. In fact, beyond the mention of the fell beast, it seems more like a review of the full trailer.<BR><BR>And *IF* this cut was indeed so close to being final, the complete absence of any mention of Saruman's fate, the <b>#1 question</b> on fans minds, speaks volumes, IMO. This is not something PJ would change his mind on in the last few weeks.<BR><BR>A little bit more substance, please.<BR><BR>Elfstar,<BR><i>"The only thing that we really didn't know already was the Fell Beast thing. "</i><BR><BR>The fell beast being in TTT is not news either. In an interview with one of the WETA guys a while back, the fell beast was mentioned: <a target=new href="http://www.angelfire.com/film/rings/interviews/miles.html">http://www.angelfire.com/film/rings/interviews/miles.html</a><BR>Here is a quote:<BR><i>"The Fellbeast, in films II and III, which was painted by me, Mel James and Darren Bedwell is far more dragon like though. I think you will be scared to death!"</i><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby DrStrangelove » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:39 am

Are you sure that your source hadn't just seen the trailer? I mean that seems the source of the info <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0><BR><BR>It seems very, very vague for a film thats 10 days from being locked.
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Postby SamwiseCat » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:40 am

Yes what of the attack on Isengard!!! oh and 111
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Postby Luinaglariel » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:40 am

It's just that the report is very visual-effects-centric, which, if his source is part of the vfx department, I find quite understandable.<BR><BR>At least give him a bit more of a chance to expand before we start suggesting that it's a hoax? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0>
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Postby Gungnir » Tue Oct 08, 2002 7:46 am

<b>At least give him a bit more of a chance to expand before we start suggesting that it's a hoax? </b><BR><BR>Where's the fun in that?
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Postby Luinaglariel » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:03 am

<BR>Fun? What fun?<BR><BR>These things are a matter of life and death, remember? <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-rolleyes.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR>If Saruman dies, we run the serious risk of drowning in a flood of gooey whinges, !!!!!111's, <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0><img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif"border=0>'s and PJ voodoo dolls. <BR><BR><BR>Not fun at all.
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Postby Gungnir » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:05 am

Fun is where you find it.
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Postby Mithfânion » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:17 am

My utter impatience is getting the best of me again. Paging Sar!<BR><BR>Come on Sar, here's your chance to silence the naysayers <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>With regard to Saruman, the very fact that nothing was mentioned about him indicates that nothing special happened, in other words, it is just as expected (for the source), as per book. If you deduce anything from this it is that nothing involving Saruman was special enough to mention.
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Postby Luinaglariel » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:19 am

<i>Fun is where you find it. </i><BR><BR>Indeed. <BR><BR>Though it is usually wise for people who advocate that view to spare the rest of us the details about where they <i>do</i> find it. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
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Postby Prozac_Loki » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:28 am

Arwen doesn't go to Helms Deep. <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0><BR><BR>Saranthir is right that there are several scenes where Eowyn is in the same LOCATION as Arwen, though whether or not they interract, I'm not sure.
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Postby llyr_ap_cenydd » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:35 am

Damn! More Arwen! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif"border=0> You know, I feel the trailer really slows down in the final quarter, due 100% to the fact that Arwen and Elrond feature so prominately. Its a shame. I don't care if you want 1000 Elves at Helms Deep, I can't be asked with all this 'Elven fading' rubbish. Dress it up all you want, I still feel its a poor excuse to get more Liv in the film (through no fault of her own mind you).
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Postby Saranthir » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:41 am

Gungnir, logic master, I thought I had made it plain about Saruman's fate a dozen times already. He does not die in TTT - he could easily, as scenes were shot depicting this, but not on the spiked wheel of death <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0><BR><BR>The Ents attack on Isengard was in place but was still in a relatively crude and unfinished condition when my source saw the footage.<BR><BR>Gollum was said to be the best CGi character my guy has ever seen, both in terms of interaction with the other characters as well as in rendering. There were still some problems with his positioning in respect of scenery and slightly floating above it, but this will be ironed out.<BR><BR>Faramir was supposed to be really quite good, which surprised me, but I didn't hold with the idea of going to Osgiliath. Although they do capture Gollum here, slinking in the river.<BR><BR>Keep the questions coming - I'll do my best to answer, but we did not discuss every aspect of the entire film frame by frame.<BR><BR>And Gungesmear, stop goading - you're just sore because no one loves you anymore!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif"border=0> <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif"border=0> (apart from me of course)
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Postby Hama » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:44 am

Right, I am going to make some wildly unsupported suppositions from this little lot!<BR><BR>What the hell is Peter Jackson doing? Arwen and Eowyn? Together? God In Heaven! This is rubbish! This is worse than rubbish! This is sewage of the worst kind! This is worse than sewage! This is turning LOTR into a soap opera. We aren't going to get Middle Earth, we're going to get Coronation Street!<BR><BR>And he agreed the wargs looked like Guinea-Pigs to begin with? Astonishing! I am glad they are correcting this matter but what were the guys in the FX department thinking of!<BR><BR>And another thing! The fight with the Balrog is strange? What? Gandalf is bitten by a subterranean rat monkey? There is a song and dance routine? Has Peter Jackson totally lost it? It seems he has!<BR><BR>And last but not least, are you saying that Treebeard is crap when he moves? If that is the case, I am NOT going to see this film! <BR><BR>Hama, voted Mr. Rent-A-Rant 1995.<BR>
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Postby TheRock » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:48 am

What were the best parts of the film, in his opinion? How was the acting by all the new characters(Eowyn, Eomer, Theoden, Wormtounge)? How bloody was Helm's Deep, lots of decapitations?
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Postby Winged_Balrog » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:48 am

LOL!! <img src="http://www.tolkienonline.com/mb/i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif"border=0>
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Postby ElfStar » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:54 am

I still find the utter lack of details amazing. Are you sure your source has really seen as much as he claims to have seen? If he can give us more solid details on the handling of Saruman, Faramir, and how the movie ends I'll be more inclined to believe him.<BR><BR>P.S. I agree with Hama about Gandalf's song and dance routine. Totally innapropriate!
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