DandiCasenfoot
Petitioner to the Council
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Last Visited: 07 Nov 2009
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 5, 2009 9:25 pm |
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im getting a tattoo of a bible verse, and im pretty sure of the last part, but i think the people that helped me were using two or three different kinds of elvish, i just wanted it in sindarin or quenya mode, not a jumble of both. i posted this on the sindarin page too. im not sure which one will be easier to translate into.
i know how to translate it to tengwar, im just worried about the grammar.
the verse is "Deuteronomy 6:4-5
Hear, O Israel: The Lord is [our] God, the Lord alone.[You shall] Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
the translation i have is
listo, ai Israel; I Dor erulye, i Dor na er. meluvan i dor erulye ilye ore a ilye sule a ilye tur.
i think this still needs a lot of work w/ grammer, but i want to stay as close to the original verse as posible.
thanks for the help, hopefully i can get this for my birthday on the 8th!
also, if anyone has ANY suggestions on grammar, anything would be helpful at this point
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DARKastheRAIN
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Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 13 Nov 2009
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Posts: 134
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Posted: Fri Nov 6, 2009 9:46 pm |
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DandiCasenfoot said:
i
i know how to translate it to tengwar, im just worried about the grammar.
the verse is "Deuteronomy 6:4-5
Hear, O Israel: The Lord is [our] God, the Lord alone.[You shall] Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
the translation i have is
listo, ai Israel; I Dor erulye, i Dor na er. meluvan i dor erulye ilye ore a ilye sule a ilye tur.
i think this still needs a lot of work w/ grammer, but i want to stay as close to the original verse as posible.
thanks for the help, hopefully i can get this for my birthday on the 8th!
also, if anyone has ANY suggestions on grammar, anything would be helpful at this point
I'd say your translation is quite a bit off. I can't tell how right the Sindarin bits are, but the Quenya bits aren't very good. But either way mixing Quenya and Sindarin is a bad idea whether you get the words right or not.
The first problem I see in translating this is what word to use for God. Usually I use Eru and have no problems. But the problem here is that Eru isn't really the equivalent of the English word God/god. It's really only a proper name (meaning the One). This context isn't really using the word as a proper name but the word god in general, a divine entity, the one you worship. The closest thing in Quenya to god in that sense (except for the worship part) is 'Vala' but God (Eru Iluvatar) is not a Vala (and the Valar aren't really gods anyway, they're just angels) so we can't use that.
The only solution I can think of is to flip things around a little (sorry  ) and say "Eru is our Lord" instead of "the Lord is our Eru" which doesn't make any sense. That would really be more like saying the Lord is our Jehova.
So
With the bracketed words:
'Á hlarë, a Israel: Eru Hérulva ná, Eru eressë. Meluvalyë
Eru Hérulya
ilya órelyanen, ar ilya fëalyanen, ar ilya túrelyanen.'
"Hear, O Israel: Eru is our Lord (Literally "Eru our Lord is". You could also say 'Eru ná Hérulva' and keep the English order but in Quenya both are correct and I think it looks better the other way, but it's up to you, whichever you like), Eru only. You shall love
Eru your Lord
with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
Without the bracketed words:
'Á hlarë, a Israel: Eru Héru ná, Eru eressë. Á melë
Eru Hérulya
ilya órelyanen, ar ilya fëalyanen, ar ilya túrelyanen.'
"Hear, O Israel: Eru is Lord (again, you can stick to English word order if you prefer and say 'Eru ná Héru), Eru only. Love
Eru your Lord
with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
On the part that I underlined, ('Eru Hérulya' "Eru your Lord") If you prefer you could switch it for one of the following: 'i Héru Eru' "the Lord Eru" or 'Hérulya Eru' "your Lord Eru".
If the rewording bothers you too much maybe we can come up with something different, but for now I can't think of any other way around the problem. In Tolkien's mythology Eru/God was so distinguished from any kind of general or pagan diety that no word seems to exist in Elvish (none that I know of anyway) that could be used for both Eru Ilúvatar and a god in general.
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DandiCasenfoot
Petitioner to the Council
Alliance: None
Last Visited: 07 Nov 2009
Joined: 05 Nov 2009
Posts: 7
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Posted: Sat Nov 7, 2009 3:03 pm |
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thank you so much, i think im going to translate God with the letters G,o,d, writen directly in tengwar instead of translating that word into quenya first.
everything else sounds great, thanks so much
im assuming you have translated quenya to tenguar, im used to writing english words in tengwar, if im writing them from quenya, should i follow the rule of writing the (following) vowel above the previous letter, or above the following letter.
if i was writing "Hérulva", would i use
eu a
HRLV,
or
-
eu
HRLVa
any sugestions on this would be great, thanks.
and thanks for the help already DARKastheRAIN!!!
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DARKastheRAIN
Shield Bearer
Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 13 Nov 2009
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Posts: 134
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Posted: Sat Nov 7, 2009 8:56 pm |
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DandiCasenfoot said:
thank you so much, i think im going to translate God with the letters G,o,d, writen directly in tengwar instead of translating that word into quenya first.
everything else sounds great, thanks so much
im assuming you have translated quenya to tenguar, im used to writing english words in tengwar, if im writing them from quenya, should i follow the rule of writing the (following) vowel above the previous letter, or above the following letter.
if i was writing "Hérulva", would i use
eu a
HRLV,
or
-
eu
HRLVa
any sugestions on this would be great, thanks.
and thanks for the help already DARKastheRAIN!!!
above the previous letter
For more information on the Quenya mode:
http://at.mansbjorkman.net/teng_quenya.htm
I don't know if using the word God will work though. To say our God or your God, you'd have to put the endings -lva and -lya onto it. The problem is Quenya endings don't always attach well to English. If you really wanted to do it, you'd have to use a connecting vowel. Something like Godelva/Godelya. I wouldn't recommend using an English word in a Quenya sentence at all though. Especially one like God that doesn't fit Quenya phonology. Initial 'g' isn't allowed in Quenya and d only occurs after l,r, or n. The only reason Israel can be used without any changes is because it fits the Phonology of the language. (though it would be pronounced different than it is in English, ee sra el) If it was Jerusalem or something it would have had to be changed to something like Yerusalem. Doing something similar to God would be a lot more tricky since I don't know what would happen to it if it was adapted for Quenya, and since it's not really used as a proper name (if it was their wouldn't be a problem in the first place and Eru would work perfectly fine) it doesn't make sense to adapt it anyway. I wonder how the original Hebrew version of the verse was worded. That might help in translating it.
but it's your tattoo, so if you really want to use God, it's up to you.
Edit: If you use the version without the brackets, I think you could use Eru in place of God.
'I Héru Eru ná'
"The Lord is the One/the Lord is God" ('Eru' means "the One", not just a one, THE One. I suppose in a way it kind of does mean God. Just not a god, THE God)
That would keep the wording closer, and still make sense.
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DARKastheRAIN
Shield Bearer
Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 13 Nov 2009
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Posts: 134
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Posted: Mon Nov 9, 2009 12:02 am |
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Your welcome 
Nat maitulina
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Vea mi olori
Citizen of Imladris
Alliance: House of Cirdan
Last Visited: 17 Nov 2009
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Norfolk, UK
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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:27 am |
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Just to chip in here, Tolkien is documented as using Eruamillë as "mother of God" to describe the Virgin Mary, and so Eru works for "God". The thing is that the LORD (use in the Old Testament, where capitalised) refers to the Hebrew YHWH, whereas "Lord" does not. So you could get, in the OT, a line saying "The LORD is Lord" and it would be using two different Hebrew words. I'm not sure that the meaning of "LORD" would therefore translate to "héru" as in common, feudal lord. I get round the problem my using Eru as "God", and Ilúvatar as "LORD" where it occurs. So "The LORD is God" becomes "Ilúvatar ná Eru". It's not a direct translation I know, but both are the descriptive names/titles for the deities in question, and both have a similar place in the respective cosmologies, so I don't see it as a problem.
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DARKastheRAIN
Shield Bearer
Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 13 Nov 2009
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 134
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Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:08 am |
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according to Helge Fauskanger's Quenya wordlist, in VT43:28, 29, Tolkien used "i Héru" to refer to God, so I don't see why it couldn't be used here. If the English translation can use it's word for lord why not the Quenya?
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Vea mi olori
Citizen of Imladris
Alliance: House of Cirdan
Last Visited: 17 Nov 2009
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Norfolk, UK
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Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:46 am |
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Fair point. It just depends how close to the original Hebrew you want things to be.
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Zidanie5
Petitioner to the Council
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Last Visited: 19 Nov 2009
Joined: 15 Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Naples, Italy
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:34 am |
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Hello, Mighty Experts of Quenya, a humble illiterate is here to seek your help
Although I love and study linguistics, I don't know Quenya at all. So far I just understood that its structure is vaguely similar to Latin, the way it's pronounced, and that it's a wonderful language. I'd like to encrypt a sentence in order for a person to struggle ages to understand me, and I've been trying for quite a long time now, but it can be quite confusing wandering through so many resources.
I'd like to translate "What a nice illusion you are, my soul. I am just a dreamer but you are just a dream" (I know it's lame).
All I've got this far is probably completely wrong:
Vanya Rinca, fëanya
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Nalyë (er) Olos
Am I very far from it? I couldn't find anywhere a suffix which works the same as -er in English (i.e. after a verb to indicate the person who does the action).
I'd appreciate any help
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. . .any help would be much appreciated.
