chilloff
Shield Bearer
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 19 Feb 2009
Joined: 31 Mar 2002
Posts: 187
|
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2003 9:13 am |
     |
|
I just need to know if these two elves ever saw the light of Valinor?
Where they born in Valinor, or were they born afterwards when the Noldor returned to ME?
Thx
Chill 
|
|
|
|
|
|
-Rómestámo-
Ranger of the North
Alliance: default
Last Visited: 15 Oct 2004
Joined: 06 Mar 2002
Posts: 2947
|
|
Posted: Mon Jul 7, 2003 2:16 pm |
|
|
As far as we know ("...it is probable..." ), Celebrimbor was probably of the Calaquendi and definitely of the Amanyar...
Thus in the Second Edition (1966) of The Lord of the Rings, at the end of the prefatory remarks to the Tale of Years of the Second Age, he [JRRT] added the sentence: 'Celebrimbor was lord of Eregion and the greatest of their craftsmen; he was descended from Fëanor.'
On one of his copies of The Return of the King he underlined the name Fëanor in this sentence, and wrote the following two notes on the opposite page (the opening of the first of these means, I think: 'What then was his parentage? He must have been descended from one of Fëanor's sons, about whose progeny nothing has been told').
How could he be? Fëanor's only descendants were his seven sons, six of whom reached Beleriand. So far nothing has been said of their wives and children. It seems probable that Celebrinbaur (silverfisted, > Celebrimbor) was son of Curufin, but though inheriting his skills he was an Elf of wholly different temper (his mother had refused to take part in the rebellion of Fëanor and remained in Aman with the people of Finarphin). During their dwelling in Nargothrond as refugees he had grown to love Finrod and ^ his wife, and was aghast at the behaviour of his father and would not go with him. He later became a great friend of Celeborn and Galadriel.
The Peoples of Middle-earth (HOME XII) Page 317
While Finrod's wife disappeared in later drafts, this is the last that we know JRRT wrote on Celebrimbor and his parentage; given that his mother remained in Aman, Celebrimbor was born in Valinor and probably saw the light of the Two Trees (otherwise he would have been too young to journey to Beleriand.
Gil-galad, however, was almost certainly not. Disregarding the spurious genealogy published in The Silmarillion (CJRT admits this was an editorial error on his part - Much closer analysis of the admittedly extremely complex material than I had made twenty years ago makes it clear that Gil-galad as the son of Fingon (see XI.56, 243) was an ephemeral idea. ), it is clear from JRRT's latest work on his descent that he was born in Beleriand.
The name of Angrod's son (still retaining the identity of 'Orodreth') was then changed from Artanáro to Artaresto. In an isolated note found with the genealogies, scribbled at great speed but nonetheless dated, August 1965, my father suggested that the best solution to the problem of Gil-galad's parentage was to find him in 'the son of Orodreth', who is here given the Quenya name of Artaresto, and continued:
Finrod left his wife in Valinor and had no children in exile. Angrod's son was Artaresto, who was beloved by Finrod and escaped when Angrod was slain, and dwelt with Finrod. Finrod made him his 'steward' and he succeeded him in Nargothrond. His Sindarin name was Rodreth (altered to Orodreth because of his love of the mountains .. ..... His children were Finduilas and Artanáro = Rodnor later called Gil-galad. (Their mother was a Sindarin lady of the North. She called her son Gil-galad.) Rodnor Gil-galad escaped and eventually came to Sirion's Mouth and was King of the Ñoldor there.
ibid Page 350
[The two dots .. then five dots ..... are as written by JRRT ]
Consequently it is clear that Gil-galad (which is a 'mother-name' ) was of the Úmanyar and Moriquendi.
[Edit Tell me about Celebrimbor ]
|
|
|
|
|
|
Gamil_Zirak
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Gondor
Last Visited: 20 Jul 2004
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
Posts: 1276
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 8, 2003 7:00 am |
|
|
I've never read HoME, but I've always thought that Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon, which explained his true name: Ereinion, Scion of Kings. That would beter explain his becoming High King, instead of Galadriel, by far the older of the two, ruling as queen as she was of the house of Finarfin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eluchil
Mariner
Alliance: House of Elwe
Last Visited: 16 Aug 2006
Joined: 19 Nov 1999
Posts: 6151
|
|
Posted: Tue Jul 8, 2003 8:15 am |
|
|
I've never read HoME, but I've always thought that Gil-Galad was the son of Fingon.
Well this is the version in the published Silmarillion. It is derived from a note of JRRT's but as Romestamo's quote makes clear it was soon abandoned in favour of the idea presented there. Ie that he was the son of Orodreth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
  |
|
Goto:
|
|
|
|
|
| The time now is Fri Sep 3, 2010 8:14 am ... All times are GMT - 8 Hours
|
|
| |
Give chilloff a Premiere Membership!
