Alio
Shield Bearer
Alliance: Dale
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 166
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2000 6:43 pm |
     |
|
When did the last of the Elves leave Middle Earth?
When was the last sailing to the west??? How long after LOTR???
|
|
|
|
|
|
MorgulWraith
Shield Bearer
Alliance: Minas Morgul
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 20 Nov 2000
Posts: 116
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2000 6:48 pm |
|
|
I think it was 1541, when Legolas (and possibly Gimli) sailed over, though I could easily be mistaken.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alio
Shield Bearer
Alliance: Dale
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 166
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2000 6:54 pm |
|
|
That wasn't that LAST sailing. Remember in the epiloge that was never published:
"There will still be Elves for many and many an age"
All the Elves sailed west eventually (save those who gave up their immortality) and lot's of Elves stayed behind after they left (most importantly Celeborn) So... That could not off been the last sailing
Sorry 'bout the correction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eric_Reese
Ranger of the North
Alliance: gondor
Last Visited: 25 Feb 2003
Joined: 04 Sep 2000
Posts: 1558
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:17 am |
|
|
The last ship that sailed from the Grey Havens was the one that took Frodo, Bilbo, Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond to Eressea.
Then Sam left(with Celeborn and the Sons of Elrond, I think), but not from Mithlond.
Then Legolas&Gimli from the Mouths of Anduin. That was the last ship carrying members of the Fellowship.
There were still Elves, though. Most of Thranduil's people, for instance. They probably left over the next few centuries. As to when the true last ship left, I don't know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Belegûr
Mariner
Alliance: Numenore
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 09 Oct 2000
Posts: 5377
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 8:18 am |
|
|
Maybe it hasn't left yet???????? *Hoping*
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alio
Shield Bearer
Alliance: Dale
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 166
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:04 pm |
|
|
Yeah that would be cool.
*Thinks*
maybe there is some Elf frozen in ice somwhere???
after the effects of global warming kick in...
I'm gonna spray some Aeorsol can's in the air know, be back in a sec...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Barad-dur
Mariner
Alliance: Angband
Last Visited: 09 Mar 2008
Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 5361
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:39 pm |
|
|
Was there not a reference somewhere in one of the books that Cirdan's task in Middle-Earth would not be complete until the last elf had departed from ME? This would make sense since he was called the Shipwright and the Grey Havens were the only place left were ships departed for the West. I'm probably assuming here since I don't recall where or even if I read this but I postulate that he was assigned this task by the Valar (possibly Ulmo) and his job was to ensure that there would be a ship available to any elf that wished to depart ME. As such, he probably waited around for Celeborn and any lingering Silvan Elves that finally heeded the call of the Sea.
At any rate, if this is true, then Cirdan would have departed on the last ship. He certainly earned his ticket.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Elbren
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Mod Emeritus
Last Visited: 03 Nov 2004
Joined: 22 Nov 2000
Posts: 4972
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:43 pm |
|
|
Ah, one can imagine Cirdan still waiting patiently while all we Elves awaken from the spell of the Age of Man and realise that we can STILL get home!! 
Seriously, it is left open, of course, but it is intimated that the Mirkwood Elves and other of the Noldor still at Imladris remained in ME until well into the 4th Age. If that is the case, then Cirdan waited a long time, and perhaps, still waits...
|
|
|
|
|
|
erinhue
Warrior/Bard of Belfalas-Illuvatar's Bright Spirit
Alliance: Dol Amroth
Last Visited: 19 Aug 2010
Joined: 03 Aug 2000
Posts: 21129
Location: Just south of Ground Zero
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 5:57 pm |
|
|
What a wonderful thought that perhaps the last ship has yet to sail and there still might be elves in the world. You make my poet's heart leap with joy, Ahhh would that it were so.
|
|
 |
Now We're Talkin' |
|
|
|
|
cian
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Dol Amroth
Last Visited: 17 Nov 2004
Joined: 04 Sep 2000
Posts: 1123
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2000 7:00 pm |
|
|
The Prof. describes the Lingerers for example, those Quendi who would eventually 'fade' in Middle-earth, their spirits consuming their bodies. The beautiful Lingerers might yet reveal their forms to the minds of Men however, or might be 'seen only dimly and fitfully'. There were also the Houseless (refering to the body) who were not all kindly to Men, and in addition to refusing the Summons, might even speak against the Rulers. They could be perilous in any interaction with Men.
|
|
|
|
|
|
robo
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Valinor
Last Visited: 09 Apr 2010
Joined: 01 Nov 2000
Posts: 4047
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2000 1:00 am |
|
|
If someone could clarify, were ALL elves allowed to sail into the West, even the Silvan? The Silvan (the majority of those in Lorien and Mirkwood) refused the Summons of the Valar. I always thought that they stayed behind. Legolas being Sindar though, did go West.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Barad-dur
Mariner
Alliance: Angband
Last Visited: 09 Mar 2008
Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 5361
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2000 5:15 pm |
|
|
As far as I can remember, any elf regardless of kindred was allowed to sail into the West if he or she so chose. This included all of the Silvan elves, also known as the Avari, that refused the original summons of the Valar. There was no prohibition against them leaving simply because they chose not to do so the first time around. The summons of the Valar was a standing and ongoing offer.
The only exception to this rule were the exiled Noldor that returned to ME to fight Morgoth. These elves could only return with special permission from the Valar. Only after their toil and sacrifice had been deemed sufficient were they forgiven and allowed to return. Galadriel was one such, rewarded for her toils against Sauron and for resisting the lure of the One ring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Alio
Shield Bearer
Alliance: Dale
Last Visited: 30 Apr 2002
Joined: 10 Jun 2000
Posts: 166
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2000 9:01 am |
|
|
Thanx everyone. That clears thing up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
cian
Ranger of the North
Alliance: Dol Amroth
Last Visited: 17 Nov 2004
Joined: 04 Sep 2000
Posts: 1123
|
|
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2000 9:34 pm |
|
|
My understanding is that the Tawarwaith (Silvans) were also (in origin) Teleri, thus Eldar.
As for the question of who was allowed over sea after the War of Wrath: I tend to agree with the concept that seemingly includes all Elves who desired it. Despite the Letter to Naomi Mitchison for example (in which we read 'irrevocable choice') a much later Letter seems to leave out any Avarin qualifications at least, ie general 'immortals' may seek the West oversea, but moreover, this later lack of distinction may reflect a concept found in a text from Morgoths Ring:
"The passing 'oversea' to Eressëa (an isle within sight of Aman) was permitted to, and indeed urged upon, all Elves remaining in Middle-earth after the downfall of Morgoth in Angband."
I'm leaning this way at this time
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lady_of_the_Stars
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Valinor
Last Visited: 08 Feb 2004
Joined: 11 Feb 2002
Posts: 580
|
|
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:35 pm |
|
|
But what of those Elves who did not wish to leave...must Cirdan still wait for these indecisive beings as well?
Which brings about the thought....since Cirdan did indeed leave with Celeborn, and since he was to wait out every Elf in Middle Earth, there were no elves that wished to stay, and if so, they had given up their immortality, or faded, if that was possible at the time.
It seems plausible, does it not?
~Ilmarien
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tuor_of_Gondolin
Shield Bearer
Alliance: House of Hador
Last Visited: 27 Apr 2004
Joined: 21 Dec 2002
Posts: 283
|
|
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:52 pm |
|
|
But what of those Elves who did not wish to leave...must Cirdan still wait for these indecisive beings as well?
You make it sound as if Cirdan is sitting at the Havens, impatiently pacing back and forth waiting for the last of those pesky lingerers to hurry up and get aboard. 
In truth, I think that Cirdan enjoyed making ships, and that it didn't really matter much where he was, so long as he could work in peace, near the sea, with his various timbers, fittings, and metalwork.
I don't think Ulmo assigned Cirdan the task of waiting for all the Elves to leave Middle-earth; I think he took it upon himself to do this. I think it has to do with his own inner nature. And, IMO, so long as one is knows one's self and acts according to its nature, then one is content. I think Cirdan would be just as content making ships in Aman as in Middle-earth. He was, after all, Cirdan the Shipwright.
Tuor of Gondolin
|
|
|
|
|
|
Tasslehoff
Rider of the Mark
Alliance: Grey Havens
Last Visited: 08 Jun 2006
Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 605
|
|
Posted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 11:26 pm |
|
|
"I don't think Ulmo assigned Cirdan the task of waiting for all the Elves to leave Middle-earth;"
I don't think so either. After thousands years in Middle-Earth making ships, and with the Dark Lord no more a menace, he certainly can go to the West whenever he want to (and he did it on the ship of Sam, Celeborn and cie).
Also, after all the time past in Middle-Earth, Cirdan have probably teached is knowledge to some elves who can now replace him somehow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mithfânion
Ringbearer
Alliance: House of Gilgalad
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 10 Feb 2000
Posts: 11514
|
|
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 3:53 am |
|
|
I cannot for the life of me recall the exact quote but I always assumed that, after reading it, Cirdan had left with the other Ringbearers, Elrond, Galadriel etc. This seemed to me to be one of the (if not THE) last ship to leave from the Grey Havens.
Remember that in the concluding chapters of the book, we are told that the last of the Elves (or perhaps just the Noldor) were leaving. This included Elrond and Galadriel. From this I also gathered Cirdan would be on that ship.
However in past discussion I recall a quote which shed the Light of Ambiguity upon this, which is why we never reached a conclusion. Apologies for being so vague, the quotes are there but I haven't memorized them all 
|
|
|
|
|
|
greenleafwood
Ranger of the North
Alliance: House of Elrond
Last Visited: 01 Oct 2009
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 1882
|
|
Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:03 pm |
|
|
did anyone remember that Legolas built his own ship and sailed on his own down the Anduin? I doubt if he met Cirdan. If he had met the Shipwright at the Grey Havens, my guess is that Legolas would have climbed on board the first white ship that he saw (and never mind Ithilien and Gimli). The call of the sea is very strong in the Elves, I doubt if any of them would have resisted it for long.
greenleaf
|
|
|
|
|
|
  |
|
Goto:
|
|
|
|
|
| The time now is Fri Sep 3, 2010 8:20 am ... All times are GMT - 8 Hours
|
|
| |
Give Alio a Premiere Membership!
