The Two Film Treatment?

What do you think of Tolkien on the silver screen...? Whether Bakshi, Jackson, Amazon, BBC radio play, or whoever else, come on in and discuss your reflections, opinions, and memories...

The Two Film Treatment?

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:12 am

Hi,

Longtime Lurker here, finally joining in on the discussions. I saw the following description over at Sideshow Weta of a new Lithograph by Alan Lee of Gandalf and Gwaihir flying over Helm's Deep. The following is mentioned in the description:
The giclee depicts the flight of Gandalf the Grey from Isengard over the stone fortifications of Helm's Deep. Gwaihir, the Lord of the Eagles, bears the Wizard to freedom and onward in his quest to protect the freedom of the people of Middle-earth. This is a scene which was cut in the early days of the scripts' development and, can therefore, only be seen in the conceptual art by Alan Lee.


Here's the image:
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/mas_assets/jpg/8604_image02.jpg

Now I've heard bits and pieces before about the 2-film treatment that PJ was working with Miramar but I'm curious to see how much was changed in that treatment? Another hint of proposed changes is on John Howe's website where he has an image of Frodo with the Ring confronting the Winged Nazgul. In this image, the encounter takes place at Amon Hen on the seat of seeing. John Howe mentions that this was intended as the climax of the first movie.

Here's the link for that image:
http://www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/details.php?image_id=334

If that was the case, then surely the first movie was intended to cover similar ground to that covered in Fellowship. But if Gandalf flew straight from Isengard to Helm's Deep how did he get there? Surely they were not cutting the entire Rivendell/Moria/Lothlorien sequence? Or was Helms Deep to be cut from Movie 2 and Gandalf was simply flying over the fortress as a passing reference for fans of the books?

I remember Xoanon from The One Ring wrote a review of the original scripts of the Two film treatment, but they were very much remarking on the style of the scripts and dialogue without giving away any major plot changes. Does anyone have access to those scripts and can they fill me in on the intended structure of the original treatment?

It certainly makes me eternally grateful for how the films eventually turned out! Imagine what the purist reaction would have been to the original treatment, not to mention Boormans version or (God forbid) the Beatles version?

Anyway, can anyone help me on this? Speculation is of course also welcome! Hard facts have never been a pre-requisite for discussion here!

Cheers,
Alatar


*Edited to add links
User avatar
AlatarVinyamar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 7:09 am
Top

Postby Hama » Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:48 am

Hi,

I picked up quite a bit about the original two film, I have some script fragments squirreled away somewhere and know that some of the ideas for the treatment would have had a few of us baying for Peter Jacksons blood. Arwen at Helms Deep and slaying the witchking was one rumour, Lothlorien being completely cut and Frodo visiting Galadriel in a dream was another. Not possessing the script I can't say, but some of the early dialogue was risible. 'What's this? A ranger caught off his guard...' was a survivor from the old script. Thankfully we did not get Gimli's 'pick on someone yer own size, you over-stuffed buzzard!' as he then embeds his axe in the head of an enormous nazgul!

Hama.

PS. Nice pickies! Thank you for posting them. I did not know about the Amon Hen thing. That would have made more sense than Osgiliath because in the book Sauron knew something was afoot when Frodo put on the ring and stood upon the hill of sight.
User avatar
Hama
Ranger of the North


 
Posts: 4892
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 10:10 pm
Top

Postby LadyAshley » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:35 am

I would have been baying for PJ's blood. It's so sad entire sequences from the books would have been cut in favor of Arwen and a Galadriel dream. (Well, they still were but not on the scale of the Two Script Version.)

Thank Eru for New Line Cinema!

And thanks, Alatar, for the pic!
Last edited by LadyAshley on Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LadyAshley
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 2091
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 5:24 pm
Top

Postby celebgalad » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:38 am

i don't know that much about the two-film script but i must say it excites me. i'd like to know more about it.


what i do know is that lothlorien was cut, arwen at helms deep was a leftover from that script and legolas and gimli were ONLY in the films for comic relief.



i'd certainly like to find out some more about this deep, dark time in PJ history... anyone who has any info?
User avatar
celebgalad
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:33 am
Top

Postby SueB » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:44 am

I wonder if they cut Faramir's character out completely as well? It could be done pretty easily (both Bakshi and Rankin/Bass completely eliminated his character with no problems to the story), and it would explain why his scenes seem rather inconsistently written.

I'd be very curious to learn more about this treatment as well!

Sue :)
User avatar
SueB
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 2509
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:16 pm
Top

Postby thebachelor » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:35 am

My understanding is that Faramir was included in the two-film version but that Eomer was omitted. That explains why he's such a cipher in the finished films -- he almost wasn't there at all.

Also, like the BBC Radio version, the two-film script included a sequence showing Gandalf's visit to Rohan after escaping from Orthanc. Presumably this was inserted because the first film was going to end with the Battle of Helm's Deep, and the concept of Rohan and the characters of Theoden, Wormtongue and Eowyn would have been introduced too late in the first film if they didn't appear until the Three Hunters and Gandalf later visited Rohan. According to some reports Edoras and Dunharrow were omitted in that version, all the major scenes in Rohan taking place at Helm's Deep. Reportedly also Eowyn somehow saved Gandalf's life during his initial visit to Helm's Deep.

Other interesting tidbits about the two-film version: Frodo, not Galadriel, would have narrated the Prologue; Gandalf would have found Merry and Pippin along with Sam eavesdropping outside the window on the "Shadow of the Past" conversation; Glorfindel reportedly came to the rescue with Arwen during the "Flight to the Ford"; the absence of the Lorien sequence was plugged by having the Fellowship build boats from driftwood; and Legolas actually shot Gollum through the hand when he was spying on the Fellowship at one point. (PJ and company must have decided Glorfindel was redundant due to Arwen's presence. In a way I would have preferred all three of Frodo's friends to be eavesdropping, since it would have hinted at the "conspiracy" concept from the book, but I understand that for the three-film version Merry and Pippin's participation had to develop a tiny bit more gradually.)

I'm surprised that Frodo's confrontation with a Nazgul on Amon Hen was supposed to be the climax of the first film, since the first film was supposed to end with the Battle of Helm's Deep -- how could Frodo still be on Amon Hen at that point? So there are still many unanswered questions about that version of the script.
User avatar
thebachelor
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:14 am
Top

Postby Dave_LF » Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:14 pm

Gandalf would have found Merry and Pippin along with Sam eavesdropping outside the window on the "Shadow of the Past" conversation


I think I would have preferred that, actually. Why did those two come along again?
User avatar
Dave_LF
Mariner

 
Posts: 7187
Joined: Wed May 01, 2002 8:39 pm
Top

Postby thebachelor » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:06 pm

I can actually understand why Merry and Pippin come along in the finished film, although it's not nearly as convincing as in the book. Their presence at Bilbo's party and the delighted way Pippin greets Frodo in Farmer Maggot's field ("Frodo! Frodo Baggins!") show that they're close friends of Frodo. When the Black Rider comes upon the Hobbits, all four of them flee together. Then Merry realizes the Black Rider was trailing Frodo ("That Black Rider was searching for something... or someone"), and friendship causes Merry and Pippin to accompany Frodo and Sam in fleeing the Shire -- Frodo is in too much danger for Merry and Pippin to abandon him. Finally, they volunteer for the Fellowship for the same reason.

It's a little weak, but it works, primarily because of the excellent performances of Boyd and Monaghan in the two scenes I quoted above.
User avatar
thebachelor
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:14 am
Top

Postby celebgalad » Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:10 pm

I think I would have preferred that, actually. Why did those two come along again?


actually, i kinda like the idea that merry and pippin join this epic quest in whihch they will play significant parts and which will change them forever by accident. i think it hints at this concept of "divine intervention" or "the good powers at work" which many book-lovers on these boards have said was deleted when the book was adapted into a film.

consider this: in the concept of the film, how would the story have evolved had frodo and sam NOT had the (un)fortune of meeting merry and pippin in the cornfield.

anyway, this post ot totally OT and much too long. lets get back to discussing the two-film scripts here, people.
User avatar
celebgalad
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 3:33 am
Top

Postby semuta » Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:07 pm

I tried to search for previous topics on this (I know there are some), but I can't get much luck just searching for "two film". Help?
User avatar
semuta
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1257
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 12:48 pm
Top

Xoanon's Script Review.

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Tue Jun 22, 2004 12:42 am

I mentioned Xoanon's script review earlier. Here's the section where he mentions storyline structure. Unfortunately it is mainly about Fellowship and says little to nothing about the Second Film.

Obviously we know the story right? Wrong, this is PJ's version, and as many of you know things were left out. Left out here is Tom Bombadil, the Barrow Downs, Bill Ferny, The Crickhollow Scenes, Lothlorien; these are the most obvious. But rest assured the story flowed so well from the beginning at Hobbiton to Weathertop, that I honestly forgot about the Barrow-wright scene. Really, the rest I knew were missing, but were not missed, the story was fast paced and very well thought out.

So how do the Hobbits get their swords if they don't go through the Barrow Downs? Aragorn supplies them. (oh! I can see the head!). But let's backtrack a bit, if any of you are worried about the portrayal of the nazgul in these films, rest assured these guys are going to be the scariest things since the Alien from Aliens. Remember that scene where the captain is in the vent shaft and he has that flashlight, and he's climbing down, and he turns one way, and when he turns back BAM!! There's the alien? Think of the scare factor there, and you'll have your Nazgul. The silent deadly enemy. Ooh baby, they rock.

Like I was told, and now as I read for myself the story moves along fairly quickly, yet you do not feel like your being pushed. The hobbit's make their way in and out of Bree, with a Nazgul attack right in their very rooms. They make their way to Weathertop; this scene is basically exactly the same as the books. Frodo makes his diving stab and gets the Nazgul blade in the shoulder. We then move quickly to the stone trolls and the first meeting of Arwen. And yes, she takes Glorfindel's role here. But Glorfindel is not axed from this script. The standoff at the Ford remains intact, in all its glory.

The encounter with Saruman is in this plot as well, though in the present and not as a story told by Gandalf in the council. It uses some neat elements that I liked very much, and the scene was extended if you can believe it, which made it all the better.

The scene at the Council of Elrond is, if I may, written exactly in the style that I said it should be in my rants. Less exposition, more decision making and action. And we do not skip a beat here folks. Everything is discovered and the fellowship is hammered out. Their objective, help Frodo take the ring to mount doom and destroy it.

One thing I did not like about this scene was the omission of Boromirs story of his dream and his trip from Rohan. It was missed from this scene, and was not replaced.

Some new elements to the Arwen/Aragorn relationship here remember those pics from the official site? The one with Arwen and Aragorn on the bridge? I know exactly what scene it is from. The scenes between these two are wonderful and romantic. Picture Arwen, the immortal Elf, in love with a Man, who does not want to give his love, because he doesn't want Arwen watch him grow old and die. I seriously felt the angst and anger here that comes from the Highlander, you know the scene, where McCloud is in the highlands, and he's with his woman, who he watches grow old and die. And that great Queen song is playing...let me tell you, this is certainly no hell bent for leather warrior princess. This is an anciently old woman, with feelings of love and caring of that type of first love that you can never truly find again. Like they say, you never love anyone as much as the first one. I feel that from Arwen, she truly is in love for the first time.

The trip to Moria is exactly as written, with the Fellowship taking the trip up the mountains first, here again we see more Saruman where we have not seen before. Moria is fairly intact, with everything where it is supposed to be, and yes the Balrog scene will leave your jaw on the sticky cinema floor. When I read it I could not get the immense size of the thing out of my head, it was an amazing piece of cinema literature and it will certainly be a keynote scene, look for it on the trailers, I can guarantee it!

Out of Moria, and the sense of loss here is incredible, with some great writing, and hopefully acting. If this scene remains the same then we are seriously going to see some great introspective moments here.

With the new 3 scripts, thankfully Lothlorien is added here. But when PJ wrote the 2 scripts he skipped them. How did he do this? Well, the Fellowship quickly hewed out some canoes out of tree stumps. And were sailing the Anduin by the next day.

Here is where we see more of Gollum, where at the beginning of the film we see 'teasing glimpses' and the same in Moria. We see more this time, Frodo tells Sam that he has known about Gollum following, and has heard his footsteps in Moria. That night, on the sandy beach, Gollum attacks Frodo in his sleep; the ring is ripped from his neck, but lands on the beach, where Boromir gets his first look at it. What is in his heart? We see the first good foreshadowing of his treachery. Gollum gets a good arrow through the hand thanks to Legolas and takes off.

The scenes where Boromir attacks Frodo, and the Orc raid, with Frodo and Sam taking off and the breaking of the fellowship is flawless. The sense of urgency and the timing of the action are perfect. Boromir again redeems himself in the end, and of course dies in the consequence. His funeral pyre is much to brief in my opinion, but I guess they couldn't stand around much with the Hobbits all scattered. I'm hoping for a more drawn out funeral scene in the new scripts.

This is of course where the story splits, with the Frodo and Sam storyline, which remains fairly 99% accurate with the books. And the rest of the party. That of course has changed a bit.

The Merry and Pippin adventure with the Orcs remains constant. And their escape and venture into Fangorn forest is there as well. As well as my favorite characters the Ents. Their introduction into this scene is nothing short of brilliant. And I cannot wait to see this Army of angry Ents rage across the hills.

I'm not going to give away too much of the rest suffice it to say that storyline wise, it's fairly accurate and to the point. Where things are moved and changed around are for the better. And are very minimal.


There's more stuff about the characters and style here:
http://www.theonering.net/features/script/

Cheers,
Alatar
User avatar
AlatarVinyamar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 7:09 am
Top

Audition Script 1 of 4

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:53 am

After a bit of searching I turned up these original Audition scripts. At this stage it was a 3-Movie deal I think, but there are enough changes from the final version to make them worth a read perhaps?

Part 1 of 4
"Lord of the Rings" Audition Script. Complete and unabridged. Original script is spiral-bound and printed on tan paper, photocopied from a fax sent from victoria burrows in Jan. 13, 1999. Each tan page bears the phrase "Do not copy", in red, along the center. The first page of each scene bears teh word "file" printed in red. There are many hand-written markings throughout the script.
LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

ARAGORN & ARWEN

Whilst in Lothlorien, Aragorn comes upon Arwen who is singing by herself
in a glade. Entranced, Elrond's daughter reminds him of the fabled
Luthien, a legendary Elvish Princess who gave up her immortality so she
could marry a mortal man.

(N.B: This sequence does not take place in the Ring Trilogy proper. It is
described instead in Appendix (A) Part V, and has been freely adapted here
for the purposes of this Audition.)

ARAGORN
Luthien?

ARWEN
Who are you? Why do you call me by that name?

ARAGORN
Because ... forgive me Lady, I took you for the very Luthien of whom you
sing.
(pause)
If you are not she, then you walk in her likeness.

ARWEN
So many have said, yet her name is not mine. Though perhaps my fate will
not be unlike hers.
(pause)
Who are you?

ARAGORN
I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn.

ARWEN
(nods)
Islidur's heir, and lord of the Dunedain.
(pause)
Then we are kin, at least from afar. I am Arwen, Elrond's daughter.

ARAGORN
(surprised)
My lord Elrond's daughter?
(pause)
I dwelt in this house from childhood, yet I've heard no word of you.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

ARWEN
You've lived no more than a score of years in Middle-earth. It's many
times that since I've been here.

ARAGORN looks surprised, for she seems, if anything, younger than him.

ARWEN
(laughs)
Do not wonder. The children of the Eldar live long.

ARAGORN
Yes. It's said, many spans the life of a man.

ARWEN
I've already lived in this world so long that to me, you're but a yearling
shoot next to a tree of many summers.

ARAGORN
(sighs)
I know it. I am mortal, and you are Elf kind.

ARWEN
Yes - that is our fate.
(pause)
Why do you look at me so?

ARAGORN
Because your beauty pierces my heart.

ARWEN
Alas, then. For that, there can be no easy remedy.

ARAGORN
I am not one so easily daunted.

ARWEN
With your hope, I could also hope.

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

ARAGORN - SCENE 2

Following an ambush Aragorn realises that he and his men have been
deliberately drawn away from Minas Tirith, the mighty city of which he is
the rightful King.

ARAGORN
(calling)
Legolas! I need your Elf-eyes!

LEGOLAS hurries over to ARAGORN.

ARAGORN (cont'd)
What do you see? There ...

LEGOLAS peers into the distand murk ...

LEGOLAS
Flames ... and Nazgul! There is war at Minas Tirith!

ARAGORN
(angry)
He has taken us for fools! This skirmish in the south has been a ploy ...
a diversion to keep us from the field of battle!

LEGOLAS
Minas Tirith is two days ride! How can we hope to get there in time?

ARAGORN suddenly turns, a look of grim determination on his face.

ARAGORN
I will not see the White City fall! We must take the Paths of the Dead!

LEGOLAS
(shocked)
Is it your want to seek death? The Shadow-men will suffer no living man to
pass through their hidden halls!

ARAGORN
(grim determination)
They will suffer me!

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

ARWEN - SCENE 2

ARWEN has defiantly arrived on the eve of Battle. ARAGORN has just
discovered the identity of the cloaked archer.

ARAGORN
(surprised)
Arwen!

ARWEN
I came to fight.

ARAGORN
This is madness! Your immortality will not save you from an Orc blade.

ARWEN draws her side sword.

ARWEN
I can look after myself as well as any Man!

ARAGORN reaches for ARWEN'S sword.

ARAGORN
Give me that!

ARWEN holds the sword point to his throat.

ARWEN
A solider never surrenders their weapon.

ARAGORN
(angrily swatting sword out of the way)
You are no soldier - in two hours this place will be besieged, crawling
with orcs!

ARWEN
I have lived through worse.

ARAGORN
You know nothing of war.

ARWEN
I know about loss.

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

BILBO

Having pulled a surprise disappearing act on his fellow Hobbits, BILBO
BAGGINS sits down to discuss his future plans with the Wizard, GANDALF.

BILBO
Hello! I wondered if you would turn up.

GANDALF
I'm glad to find you visible. I suppose you feel very pleased with
yourself.

BILBO
I do. That flash of smoke when I vanished - a little addition of your own?


GANDALF
It was. You have kept that ring secret all these years - no need to make
an obvious a display of it now.

BILBO
(laughs)
You are an interfering old busybody, but I expect you know best, as usual.


GANDALF
I know enough to make sure you see your plan through. You mean to
continue?

BILBO
Yes, oh yes. I need a holiday - a very long holiday.

The Hobbit starts in on his final packing.

BILBO
I don't expect I shall return. In fact, I don't mean to.

BILBO meets his old friend's eye.

BILBO (cont'd)
I am old, Gandalf. I don't look it, but I am beginning to feel it in my
heart.
(pause)
I feel all thin.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

BILBO (cont'd)
Sort of stretched, if you know what I mean: like butter, scraped over too
much bread.
(pause)
I need a change - or something.

GANDALF
I believe your plan is probably for the best.

BILBO
Well - everything's set now. All the arrangements made. I want to see
mountains again. Mountains. And then find somewhere I can rest without a
pack of relatives prying around or confounding visitors hanging on the
bell. Somewhere I can finish my book.
(smiles)
I have thought up a good ending for it: ... and he lived happily ever
after to the end of his days.

GANDALF
I hope he will. Who will read the book, I wonder?

BILBO
Frodo has read some already, as far as it goes.
(concerned)
You'll keep an eye on him won't you?

GANDALF
Yes, I will. Two eyes. As often as I can spare them.

BILBO
I'm leaving everything to him of course, except a few oddments.

GANDALF
Everything?

A shifty look passes over BILBO'S face.

GANDALF (cont'd)
The Ring as well? You agreed to that, remember?

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

BILBO
Yes. Of course. I suppose so.

GANDALF
Where is it?

BILBO
In an envelope.
(reluctant)
There on the mantelpiece.

The Hobbit's expression changes from reluctant and sly, to guilty
surprise.

BILBO
Wait, no! Here it is in my pocket. Isn't that odd now?
(considering)
Yet, after all. Why not? Why shouldn't I keep it?

GANDALF
I think, Bilbo, you should leave it behind. Is that so hard?

BILBO
Well, no. And yes. Now it comes to it I don't feel like parting with it.
Why should I have to? You've never cared about anything else I brought
back from my journey.

GANDALF
I think you've had it quite long enough Bilbo. You won't need it any more,
unless I am quite mistaken.

BILBO
Why not? What business is it of yours anyway? It's mine. I found it. It
came to ME!

GANDALF
There's no need to get angry.

BILBO
If I'm angry, it's your fault. It is mine. My own. My precious!

The Wizard advances on the little Hobbit. BILBO's voice, shape and manner
have completely changed.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF
It has been called that before, but not by you!

BILBO
(raving)
Gollum! That miserable, wretched ... so wicked ... he wanted to ... he
would have killed me. He called me sneak! Thief! But it is mine.

BILBO backs away from GANDALF

BILBO (cont'd)
Mine!

GANDALF
I am not trying to rob you. I want to help you. Trust me, as you once did.


BILBO seems to cower, not only from GANDALF but from some inner demon.

BILBO
It has been growing in my mind. I always want to put it on ... to
disappear. I tried locking it up, but I couldn't rest without it.

GANDALF
Follow your plan. Go away and leave the Ring behind.

BILBO
Perhaps it will be a relief not to have it.
(with effort)
I will.
(decisive)
The Ring will go to Frodo with all the rest.
(cheers up)
Yes. And now, I must really be going. I'm late, and the road is long.

GANDALF
Bilbo?

BILBO
Yes?

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF
The Ring. It is still in your pocket.

BILBO
Good gracious me, so it is.

BILBO pulls it out and looks at it. He goes to place it on the
mantelpiece, but for an instant, a spasm of anger crosses his face.

He drops the Ring and it lies between them on the floor. BILBO sags from
the effort but manages to turn his back on the Ring and GANDALF.

BILBO
(drained)
There - that's done ... I must finish my packing ... where's my bag ...
where did I put it?

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

BOROMIR

BOROMIR, a warrior and son of the Steward of Gondor, has been part of the
Fellowship of the Ring escorting FRODO. He has been steadfast and brave,
but a long hidden desire to take the Ring and use it in defense of his
country has overcome his loyalty to the cause. He waits until FRODO is
alone, and steals up behind him.

FRODO senses something behind him and turns.

BOROMIR
I was afraid for you Frodo. If Aragorn is right and Orcs are near, then
none of us should wander alone, and you least of all, so much depends on
you.
(pause)
And yet I know why you seek solitude.

FRODO
You do?

BOROMIR
You suffer. I see it day by day. Are you sure you do not suffer
needlessly? I wish to help you.

FRODO
You can't help me. I know what I should do, it's only, I'm afraid of doing
it.

BOROMIR
Afraid? No. You need advice. Won't you take mine?

FRODO
I think I know what your advice would be, Boromir. And it would seem like
wisdom but for the warning in my heart.

BOROMIR
Warning? Against what?

FRODO
Against delay. Against the way that seems easier. Against refusal of the
burden that's been laid on me.
(pause)
Against, if it must be said, against the strength and truth of Men.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

BOROMIR
That strength has long protected you, far away in your little country.

FRODO
I know your people are brave, but the world is changing. Your castle walls
are strong, but if they fall, then what?

BOROMIR
Then we fall valiantly in battle. But they will not fall, not while there
is hope.

FRODO
There is no hope while the Ring lasts.

A strange look steals into BOROMIR'S eyes at the mention of the Ring.

BOROMIR
It's a strange fate that we suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a
thing. Such a little thing.
(pause)
I caught a glimpse of it in the House of Elrond. I would dearly love to
see it again.

FRODO
No.

FRODO steps away from him, suddenly tense.

FRODO (cont'd)
It is best kept hidden.

BOROMIR
(regaining composure)
Very well ... but come with me at least to Minas Tirith. My city is close
now and you could rest before the next stage of your journey ...

FRODO does not reply and steps further away. BOROMIR grows agitated.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

BOROMIR (cont'd)
Why do you recoil? I am no thief. Yes, I wish to have the Ring, but not to
keep. Lend me the Ring - let me but try my plan.

FRODO
No! The Council of Elrond charged me to bear it alone.

BOROMIR
The Council of Fools! They bade a Halfling walk into the clutches of the
Enemy! It is madness! You go to your death and to the ruin of us all. Give
me the Ring!

BOROMIR lunges at FRODO who puts on the Ring and disappears. BOROMIR
gasps, and lashes out with his sword.

BOROMIR
Miserable trickster! Let me get my hands on you! I see your mind - you'll
take the Ring to Sauron, you will betray us! Curse you and all Halflings
to death and darkness!!

He stands there a moment, then appears stunned by what he has just said.
Comprehension of his actions fills his mind and he begins to weep.

BOROMIR (cont'd)
Frodo! Come back! It was madness, Frodo?! ... What have I done???!

-END-
User avatar
AlatarVinyamar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 7:09 am
Top

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:54 am

There are three more of these, but I don't want to spam the forum. Should I post them here?
User avatar
AlatarVinyamar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 7:09 am
Top

Postby Hama » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:38 am

You beat me too it, so I shall supply the rest. These caused a fair amount of discussion when they first appeared.

Part 2
LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

DENETHOR

The City of Gondor is under siege. The Steward of the city, Lord Denethor, argues bitterly with the Wizard Gandalf over the fate of his son Boromir and over the wisdom of the Council of Elrond in entrusting the One Ring to a small Hobbit. Beneath Denethor’s bitterness lurks a growing paranoia.

DENETHOR
Boromir was loyal to me, and no wizard’s pupil. He would have remembered his father’s need and not have squandered what fortune gave. He would have brought me a kingly gift!

GANDALF
In no case would Boromir have brought it to you. He would have stretched out his hand to this thing, and taking it, he would have fallen. When he returned, you would not have known your son.

DENETHOR
You found Boromir less apt to your hand, did you not? Less impressed with your conjuring than younger minds?

DENETHOR looks pointedly at his youngest son FARAMIR who stands at GANDALF’S side.

DENETHOR (cont’d)
You are wise, maybe, yet with all your subtleties you have not wisdom. There are other counsels than the words of wizards and the haste of fools. I have in this matter, more lore wisdom than you deem.

GANDALF
What then is your wisdom?

DENETHOR
Enough to perceive that there are two follies to avoid. To use this thing is perilous. To send it, in the hands of a witless halfing, into the land of the Enemy himself - that, Gandalf the Grey - is madness!

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF
And the Lord Denethor? What would he have done?

DENETHOR
Most surely I would not have sent this thing beyond a fool’s hope, risking our utter ruin.
(grave)
It should be kept. Kept and hidden, dark and deep. Not to be used - unless in utmost need - but set beyond the Enemy’s grasp so that only by a victory so final that none of us be left alive, might he reclaim it.

GANDALF
You think, my Lord, of Gondor only. Yet there are other men, and other lives.

DENETHOR
Where will these men look for help if Gondor falls? If I had this thing now in the deep vaults of the citadel, we should not now shake with dread. But no! You have taken it upon yourself not to trust me in this.

GANDALF
You are strong, yet the Ring would overthrow you. Even if it were buried beneath the roots of Mindolluin. Still it would burn your mind away.

DENETHOR reflects on GANDALF’S words. Tension crackles between them before DENETHOR answers.

DENETHOR
If I had! If you had! Such words and ifs are in vain. It has gone into the Shadow, and only time will show what doom awaits us.

DENETHOR crosses to the balcony and looks out towards the East.

DENETHOR (cont’d)
That time will not be long.
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

ELROND

ELROND, the ageless Elf-Lord of Imladris (Rivendell), stands before the gathered envoys of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth; Elves, Dwarves, Men and Hobbits. With great sadness he recounts the tale of how the One Ring was first lost, recalling a time, three thousand years before, when he stood, a young Elvish-warrior, amidst the bloody field of battle.

ELROND stands as if in a trance, shrouded in far-off thoughts.

ELROND
Well I remember the splendour of the banners ... the call to arms; the shouts of victory; the screams of the dying ... it was deemed that evil was banished for ever ...

ELROND looks once again at the anxious faces around him.

ELROND (cont’d)
... but it was not so. Sauron was diminished, but not destroyed. His Ring was lost, but not unmade. The Dark Tower was broken, yet its foundations remained. The blood of the Numenoreans became mingled with that of lesser men. Then the watch on the walls of Mordor slept and evil crept back to Gorgoroth.

BOROMIR of Gondor looks doubtfully at ELROND.

BOROMIR
You say the One Ring was lost. How can you know this? How can you know it was not defeated and banished into the darkness with its Master?

ELROND knows what he is about to say will pain ARAGORN, but it must be said.

ELROND
Because Isildur took it. Isildur, Elendil’s son, cut the Ring from Sauron’s hand and took it for his own. He was slain as he fled yet death was better than what might have befallen him.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

ELROND
And so it was the great Ring past out of all knowledge. But now, in this late hour, we are in peril once more, for to our sorrow, the One has been found.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------
LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

EOWYN

The LADY EOWYN of Rohan has suffered years of frustrated misery, a prisoner to the evil spell cast over her uncle, KING THEODEN. Denied romance or even adventure, she has now tasted battle and proved her valour by defeating a RINGWRAITH. As she recovers from her injuries, EOWYN carries a worse ache. She now knows her feeling for the LORD ARAGORN can never be returned. Gripped with the belief that she has nothing left to live for, she has yet to realise her destiny has just entered the room in the shape of FARAMIR, youngest son of the dead Steward of Gondor, DENETHOR.

The Warden of the House of Healing has come across her struggling to dress.

WARDEN
My lady! This is a house of rest - you should be abed.

EOWYN
I cannot lie around like this. It is too much. I must have something to do.

WARDEN
You are not yet healed, it will be seven days or more (before you can ...)-

EOWYN
No! It is impossible. Seven more days, I might as well be dead. I have to move.
(frustrated)
Please?
(softens)
At least give me news. The women will tell me nothing.

WARDEN
(hesitates)
This dawn the Lords rode forth to Morgul Vale. The Captain from out of the North leads them.

EOWYN winces at this reference to ARAGORN. The WARDEN continues, oblivious.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

WARDEN
A great Lord is he, and a healer.
(shakes his head)
It is passing strange.

EOWYN
What is?

WARDEN
That hands like his, hands that carry a sword, can also heal. I can’t figure him.

EOWYN
He is hard to know, he has many parts.

WARDEN
The work of healers is busy enough without wars adding to our labours.

EOWYN
Would you have your people gather only herbs when the Dark Lord gathers armies? Those without swords can still die upon them.
(bitter)
I’d rather find death in battle, even pain, than heal and linger on in bitter sorrow.

The WARDEN looks at her standing there - proud, defiant.

EOWYN
Who is left in charge here?

WARDEN
The Lord Faramir. He is now Steward of Gondor.

EOWYN
Then where can I find him?

WARDEN
I don’t know about that, he is -

EOWYN
I want to see him!

EOWYN spins around as a quiet voice sounds behind her.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

FARAMIR
He is also a prisoner of the healers.

FARAMIR bows to her.

FARAMIR
I am Faramir. What is it you wish? If it lies in my power, I will do it.

EOWYN
I would have you command this Warden to let me go.

FARAMIR frowns, confused.

EOWYN (cont’d)
Please - do not misunderstand me. It is not lack of care that grieves me. No house could be fairer, nor attendants more kind. But I cannot lie idle - useless and caged.

FARAMIR
I have not yet taken up my authority in the city.
(pause)
But even if I had, I should listen to the counsel of the Warden. I hesitate to cross his advice, unless in great need.

EOWYN
My need is great. I want to ride to war, like my brother Eomer - or better, like Theoden the King.

FARAMIR
But he is dead.

EOWYN
Yes, and not has both honour and peace.

FARAMIR looks at her keenly.

FARAMIR
Such honour may yet come to us all, willing or unwilling.

EOWYN’S defiance begins to slowly drain away in the face of his quiet reason.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

EOWYN
I cannot be penned up -
(sighs)
If only my window looked east ...

FARAMIR
That can be arranged.
(pause)
If you can stand to stay within its walls you may have free passage of the citadel, my Lady. From the pinnacle you may look east where all our hopes have gone.

EOWYN turns and looks at him.

FARAMIR (CONT’D)
You and I have both passed under the wings of the Shadow. The same hand drew us back.

EOWYN
No, lord. The Shadow lies on me still.
(pause)
But thank you at least for not confining me.

She leaves him

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

FARAMIR

FARAMIR, the younger son of DENETHOR, Steward of GONDOR, and brother of BOROMIR, previously of the Fellowship of the Ring, has come across FRODO and SAM whilst on patrol with a company of his men in Ithilien, which lies on the borders of Mordor. FARAMIR is naturally suspicious of two Hobbits walking alone in the dangerous land. He also has his own personal reasons for mistrusting the Halflings.

FARAMIR
You were a friend of Boromir?

FRODO pauses a moment too long.

FRODO
Yes, I was his friend, for my part.

FARAMIR
(grimly)
Then it would grieve you to learn that he is dead?

FRODO
(startled)
Dead? You know this? But how? When?

FARAMIR
As one of his companions I had hoped you would tell me.

FRODO
He was alive and strong when we parted, and he lives still for all I know.
(pause)
Though our journey has been beset by many dangers.

FARAMIR
(dryly)
Indeed - treachery not the least.

SAM has heard enough and fronts up to FARAMIR.

SAM
See here, Captain. If you think we murdered Boromir and then ran off, you’ve got no sense; but say it and have done! Do not try and trap us with words.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

FARAMIR
Sit down! You think this is idle chatter to snare you? I seek the truth.

FRODO
(quietly)
As do we.

FARAMIR looks at FRODO keenly, he relents slightly.

FARAMIR
Very well. You ask how I know Boromir is dead. His horn washed up upon the riverbank, not six days past. It was cloven in two.
(pause)
But more than this - I know it in my heart.
(pause)
He was my brother.

FRODO
I’m sorry. He was a good man.

SAM
Aye - it were the Ring that turned his mind.

FRODO
Sam!

SAM looks stricken, realising what he has said.

FARAMIR
Ring? What ring?

SAM
(hurriedly)
It’s nothing. I spoken out of turn ...

FARAMIR ignores SAM and moves closer to FRODO.

FARAMIR
(to himself)
No - it is not possible. And yet ... there is something about you ... something I cannot name.

FARAMIR draws his sword and raises its point to FRODO’s chest.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

With a quick flick he cuts the clasp on the leather jerkin FRODO wears to reveal the Ring hanging on a chain about the Hobbit’s neck.

FARAMIR (cont’d)
So, this is the answer to all the riddles! The One Ring that was though to have perished from the world. You say my brother tried to take it? And yet you escaped? And ran all the way - to me! Here in the wild I have you: two halflings, and a host of men at my call, and the Ring of Rings!

FRODO and SAM back away in fright, fumbling for their sword hilts.

FARAMIR (cont’d)
(to FRODO)
You have carried this all the way from Imladris?

FRODO nods nervously.

FARAMIR looks at the valiant little Hobbits and drops his sword.

FARAMIR (cont’d)
Then you are to be commended. It is a heavy burden.

FRODO and SAM are overcome with relief as they realise that FARAMIR understands their plight.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

FRODO & GANDALF

Some time after BILBO has disappeared leaving FRODO alone Bag End, GANDALF pays a visit. It is more than just a social call as it turns out, in fact, FRODO’S life will never be the same after he hears what the Wizard has to say.

GANDALF
If you don’t let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right your hallway and out through the hill.

FRODO
(surprised)
Gandalf? There’s no need for violence - come in. I thought you were Lobelia.

GANDALF
Then I forgive you. She passed me on the way here, with a face that would have curdled new milk.

FRODO
She nearly curdled me. Honestly. I almost tried on Bilbo’s ring I was that keen to disappear.

GANDALF
Don’t do that. You will be careful, won’t you?
(pause)
In fact, it’s partly about the ring that I’ve come.

FRODO
What about it?

GANDALF
What do you know already?

FRODO
Only what Bilbo’s told me. I’ve heard his story ... how he found it and used it - on his journey I mean.
(putting on Bilbo’s voice)
“No secrets between us, Frodo my lad, but what I’m about to tell you is not to go any further.”

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF
You may well laugh but odd things can happen to people who hold such treasures ... if they use them.

FRODO
You’re not telling me everything - as usual.

GANDALF
When I’m certain, I’ll say more - but right now I have to leave.

FRODO
That’ll please the locals, at any rate. You been officially labelled a disturber of the peace.

GANDALF
And what would that make you I wonder?

FRODO
(glint in his eye)
Me? I’m respectable.

-END-

Part 3
LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

FRODO - SCENE 2

The two Hobbits have made it almost to Mount Doom, but they are exhausted, almost shattered by the hardships they have encountered. The Ring’s dark magic has become increasingly oppressive as they have approached their goal. SAM wakes FRODO with a heavy heart.

SAM
Wake up, Master. Time for another start.

FRODO stirs, then sits awake. He stands and surveys the desolate plain and forbidding mountain ahead.

FRODO
I can’t manage it, Sam. It is such a weight to carry ... such a weight.

SAM
Then ... let me carry it a bit for you.

FRODO
No.

SAM
You know I would, and gladly, as long as I have any strength. I did it before -

FRODO
No! Stand away! Don’t touch me! It’s mine.

SAM is shocked by the chance in FRODO, but as he gapes at his friend FRODO recovers himself with an effort.

FRODO
I’m sorry Sam. Please. You must understand. The Ring is my burden and no one else can bear it.
(forlorn)
It is too late now ... you cannot help me that way again. I am almost in its power. I couldn’t give the Ring up, and if you tried to take it, I would go mad.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

SAM
(nods sadly)
I understand.

SAM (cont’d)
But I’ve been thinking Frodo, there’s other things we might do without - why not lighten the load a bit?

SAM points at the barren mountain.

SAM (cont’d)
See, we’re going that way now, aren’t we ... straight as we can. Why take anything we don’t need?

FRODO
(nods)
No, we don’t need much on that road. Nor much at the end.

FRODO discards borrowed Orc armour with which he and SAM have disguised themselves.

FRODO
There, I’ll be an Orc no more, and I’ll bear no weapon, fair or foul. Let them take me, if they can.

SAM
Do you remember that bit of rabbit we had Frodo? And the warm spot we found we could get some sleep? Do you remember.

FRODO
No. I can’t Sam.
(haunted)
At least, I know that such things happened, but I can’t see them.
(pause)
I can’t taste food any more, or feel water. I can’t remember what trees, or grass, or flowers look like. I try to picture the moon, or stars. They’re gone.

FRODO sighs, wracked by a hopeless inner malady.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

FRODO
I’m lost, Sam. Alone in the dark, and there’s nothing between me, and a wheel of fire. I’ve begun to see it even when I’m awake and all else is fading.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

GALADRIEL

In LOTHLORIEN, tired and fearful, FRODO offers the RING to GALADRIEL, the LADY of the GOLDEN WOOD. GALADRIEL, one of the Eldar and this immortal, is tall, of surpassing beauty with long, golden hair. Serene, wise, gentle - she is also vigilant and guarded, with an underlying power, as perilous as it is good. GALADRIEL is the keeper of Nenya (The Ring of Adamant).

The voice of GALADRIEL snaps FRODO from his waking dream.

GALADRIEL
Do not touch the water!

FRODO recoils from the horrifying images revealed by the MIRROR, snatching his hand back as if scalded.

FRODO
The Shire ... !

GALADRIEL (cont’d)
(gently)
The Mirror shows many things, not all of which may come to pass.

FRODO
(distraught)
I can’t carry it any longer. Please, take it, my Lady. This matter is too great for me.

PAUSE.

GALADRIEL
(carefully)
I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired what you offer. Long years have I wondered what I might do should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! It has been brought before me. Its ancient evil works in many ways.

FRODO stares at her strange smiles. To him, she seems to have grown tall beyond measurement, beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful.

GALADRIEL (cont’d)
Would that not have been a noble deed to set to the credit of Sauron? That I should take by force his Ring from you?

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GALADRIEL (cont’d)
And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen, not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn! Treacherous as the Sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth ... All shall love me and despair!

FRODO takes a step away from GALADRIEL ...

GALADRIEL looks at FRODO as if she seems him once again.

GALADRIEL (cont’d)
(quiet laugh)
I pass the test ... I will diminish, and go into the West ... and remain Galadriel.

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

FRODO & GANDALF

Some time after BILBO has disappeared leaving FRODO alone Bag End, GANDALF pays a visit. It is more than just a social call as it turns out, in fact, FRODO’S life will never be the same after he hears what the Wizard has to say.

GANDALF
If you don’t let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right your hallway and out through the hill.

FRODO
(surprised)
Gandalf? There’s no need for violence - come in. I thought you were Lobelia.

GANDALF
Then I forgive you. She passed me on the way here, with a face that would have curdled new milk.

FRODO
She nearly curdled me. Honestly. I almost tried on Bilbo’s ring I was that keen to disappear.

GANDALF
Don’t do that. You will be careful, won’t you?
(pause)
In fact, it’s partly about the ring that I’ve come.

FRODO
What about it?

GANDALF
What do you know already?

FRODO
Only what Bilbo’s told me. I’ve heard his story ... how he found it and used it - on his journey I mean.
(putting on Bilbo’s voice)
“No secrets between us, Frodo my lad, but what I’m about to tell you is not to go any further.”

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF
You may well laugh but odd things can happen to people who hold such treasures ... if they use them.

FRODO
You’re not telling me everything - as usual.

GANDALF
When I’m certain, I’ll say more - but right now I have to leave.

FRODO
That’ll please the locals, at any rate. You been officially labelled a disturber of the peace.

GANDALF
And what would that make you I wonder?

FRODO
(glint in his eye)
Me? I’m respectable.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

GANDALF - SCENE 2

GANDALF THE GREY has been presumed dead since his encounter with the BALROG in MORIA. Now he returns in a new guise, more powerful than before, as GANDALF THE WHITE. The companions of the Fellowship greet him with relief and wonder. ARAGORN passes on the sad news of BOROMIR’S near betrayal of them all and his valiant death.

GANDALF
You have not said all you know or guess, my friend. Poor Boromir ... it was a sore trail for such a man, such a warrior, to sanction the destruction of the Ring. I am glad it’s evil did not claim him in the end. There you see - it was not in vain that those young Hobbits came with us, even if only for Boromir’s sake. Unworldly little creatures.
(pause)
And now they have come to Fangorn and who would have foreseen it. It is like the falling of small stones that start an avalanche. Listen. You hear the rumblings. Oh yes, Saruman had best not be caught away from home when that dam bursts.

ARAGORN
In one thing you haven’t changed - you still talk in riddles.

GANDALF
Riddles? No. I was just talking out loud to myself. A habit of the old. They choose the wisest person to speak with.
(warm laugh)
The explanations required by the young are tiresome.

ARAGORN
I am not so young any longer.

GANDALF
Hmmmh. That is sad, but it is true. Perhaps you will grow younger in time.

GANDALF changes tack before ARAGORN can quiz him.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF (cont’d)
Yes, yes ... I know ... more riddles. What can I tell you then? Merry and Pippin are safe, they are with the Ent, Treebeard.

GIMLI
You speak of him as a friend and yet I have heard he is dangerous.

GANDALF
Oh, he is. Very dangerous. But so am I. More dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the Dark Lord himself.
(pause)
Aragorn is dangerous, and so too the quicksilver Legolas. You are beset with dangers Gimli. You are dangerous yourself, in your fashion.

GANDALF surveys the dark wood behind them.

GANDALF (cont’d)
A thing is about to happen which has not occurred since the Elder Days. The anger of the Ents has been awakened - and it shall serve no purpose but their own. Yet I do not think we should fear it.

ARAGORN
So, do we go to seek our friends and Treebeard?

GANDALF
(considers)
No. That is not the road you must take. Your journey must be more cunning.
(pause)
Sauron believes we carry the Ring to Minas Tirith. He waits to see who will dare wield the Ring against him. That we should seek to destroy it has not yet entered his darkest dream. And in imagining war, Sauron has let loose war, sooner than he intended. Wise fool. If he used all his power to guard Mordor, then neither the Ring nor bearer could elude him long.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GANDALF looks at the COMPANIONS.

GANDALF (cont’d)
We must keep his gaze fixed on us. It is our best hope.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

GIMLI

The Fellowship of the Ring prepare to meet the Lord and Lady of Lothlorien. But first, their escort, Haldir, has an insulting demand to make of the Dwarf, Gimli. The old feud between Dwarves and Elves rears it’s head.

GIMLI eyes the strip of cloth in HALDIR’S hand.

GIMLI
And what d’you think you’ll be doing with that, laddie?

HALDIR
No Dwarf has ever beheld the secrets of Lorien. I must blindfold you before we go further, it was agreed.

GIMLI’s hand moves to his side where his mighty axe hangs.

GIMLI
Not by me, it wasn’t.

The other Elves in Haldir’s company swiftly train their bows on GIMLI. A standoff.

HALDIR
Don’t be foolish. I see one Dwarf and many Elves.

GIMLI
Aye - well, there’ll be one less Elf if your thinking of coming any closer.

ARAGORN steps between them.

ARAGORN
We have no time for arguing.

GIMLI
Whose arguing. I go forward free, or I go back and seek my own land, where they trust a fellow’s word until given reason to doubt it.

HALDIR
You cannot go back. Our sentinels would not let you pass.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

GIMLI draws out his axe.

GIMLI
Would they not, indeed?

ARAGORN
Enough! Gimli has served this Company faithfully. We will all go blindfolded.

GIMLI
A merry troop of fools we’ll look led on a string, like so many beggars.

LEGOLAS
(exasperated)
A plague on Dwarves and their stiff necks.

GIMLI rounds on LEGOLAS, a gleam in his eye.

GIMLI
Perhaps you’d like to share my blindness.

LEGOLAS
(outraged)
I am an Elf and kinsman here!

GIMLI
So, now, let us cry a plague on the stiff necks of Elves! I will be content if only Legolas joins me.

LEGOLAS
This is folly!

LEGOLAS stares at him a moment.

LEGOLAS (cont’d)
(irritated)
I will agree - but only because I know you’ll stand there like a lump of stone til doomsday.

GIMLI laughs, unrepentant.

GIMLI
You have that right. Come on then - bind up our eyes.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

Just as HALDIR steps forward with the cloth GIMLI grabs his hand.

GIMLI
(smoothly)
I’ll claim full amends for every fall and stubbed toe. Make sure you lead us well.

-END-
------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

LEGOLAS

The Grey Company stands within the passage of the Paths of the Dead. All around them fell voices can be heard whispering, before them lies gloom. The mortals - ARAGORN, GIMLI and the rest of the Company - struggle against the dread which grows in their hearts. LEGOLAS, the ELF and therefore immortal, steps forward, a radiance and lightness about him which distinguishes him from the others.

ARAGORN addresses his company.

ARAGORN
(troubled)
I should have come alone. I have led you all into danger.

LEGOLAS
We followed you of our own free will. You did not compell us to come.

ARAGORN
No - it was your courage that compelled you and I release you from it. Turn back now and do not hold yourselves dishonored.

LEGOLAS
I do not fear this place. Nor should any other who walks in your company, Aragorn, son of Arathorn.

LEGOLAS turns to the darkness as if calling on the Dead to dare challenge the prophecy.

LEGOLAS (cont’d)
Let every soul present, living - or dead - remember the words of the seer:

“.... Who shall call them
from the grey twilight, the forgotten people?
The heir of him to whom the oath they swore.
From the North shall he come, need shall drive him:
he shall pass the Door to the Paths of the Dead.”

As they stand ready to move forward the whispering voices seem to close in behind them, only LEGOLAS dares to look back.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

LEGOLAS (cont’d)
I see shapes of Men and of horses, and pale banners like shreds of cloud. Spears rise like winter thickets through a shroud of mist.
(pause)
The Dead are following. They have been summoned.

GIMLI moves alongside LEGOLAS, and speaks out of the corner of his mouth.

GIMLI
Exactly how close are they?

LEGOLAS
You feel how stifling the air is down here?

GIMLI
Yes ...?

LEGOLAS
And yet there is a draft on the back of your neck?

GIMLI shudders as if a spider has been dropped down his shirt. LEGOLAS smiles.

-END-

Part 4
LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

MERRY & PIPPIN

MERRY & PIPPIN managed to effect an escape from the URUK-HAI (hideous creatures - half Orc and half goblin men) when their kidnappers were attacked by a band of horsemen from Rohan. In the confusion of stamping hooves and URUK-HAI blades the two Hobbits made a dash for the cover off the dark forest of Fangorn. Stumbling over the gnarled and twisted roots of the trees, MERRY and PIPPIN have tumbled headlong into a gully.

MERRY lies face down in the decaying forest litter.

PIPPIN
Merry?

PIPPIN shakes his shoulder, then getting no response, rolls him over.

PIPPIN (cont’d)
(anxious)
Merry! What is it? Are you hurt?

MERRY starts to choke, fighting for air. This is too much for PIPPIN, on top of the terror of escaping from the URUK-HAI. He panics and looks around wildly.

PIPPIN (cont’d)
(yelling)
Help! He can’t breath. Someone help us!

A hand is suddenly clamped over his mouth. MERRY’S voice sounds in his ear.

MERRY
Shhh!

MERRY spits out something from his mouth.

MERRY
(whisper)
What kind of creature would come to our aid in this place?

PIPPIN glances around at the dark trees nervously.

PIPPIN
(muffled protest)
I thought you we’re (dying) -

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

MERRY
(urgent whisper)
Ssshh!!

MERRY releases his hand from PIPPIN’S mouth.

MERRY (cont’d)
I got a mouthful of leaf-mould, was all.

PIPPIN
(loud whisper)
Well I didn’t know, did I?

PIPPIN looks specuatively at the ground.

PIPPIN (cont’d)
What did it taste like?

MERRY
Disgusting.

Undeterred PIPPIN picks up an old leaf and tentatively nibbles at a corner. MERRY swats it out of his hand.

PIPPIN
(plaintively)
I’m starving!

MERRY
This is Fangorn Forest, Pippin. We were warned not to come in here - let alone start eating it.

PIPPIN
Considering we’ve had nothing but foul orc tucker for days, I don’t see what -

A strange creaking noise sounds behind them. MERRY spins round.

MERRY
(nervously)
What was that?!

PIPPIN
I don’t know. It came from over there - no wait, from over there.

Suddenly they seem to be surrounded by the long, slow, grinding and creaking sounds.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

PIPPIN (cont’d)
Merry ...? Let’s get out of here!

MERRY
My thoughts exactly. Which way did we come?

PIPPIN
I don’t know - I was following you.

MERRY looks around unsure, the noise is getting louder.

MERRY
(recalling)
There was a path. We were on a path ... then something tripped us. That’s strange, I could have sworn it was this way.

A huge tree now stands where MERRY thought the path was.

PIPPIN
Well it’s not there now.

Both of them look hard for the way out of the gully. Suddenly PIPPIN lifts up his hand as if to warn off a blow.

PIPPIN (cont’d)
Hey! That branch hit me!

MERRY
You walked into it more like -

Out of nowhere a branch swings down hitting MERRY on the head.

MERRY
Ow!

The ground beneath them starts to shake.

PIPPIN
What’s going on?

Both of them look up as the face of TREEBEARD, the Ent, swoops down towards them from a great height.

The two Hobbits look at each other for a beat, then ...

MERRY & PIPPIN
HHHHeellpp!

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd

SAM - SCENE 1

Talk grows in HOBBITON of the strange goings on in the outside world. Know-it-all TED SANDYMAN is holding forth, but quiet SAM GAMGEE, the Gardner’s son, reveals an unexpected amount of knowledge.

SAM has been nursing his pint, listening to the discussion at the Green Dragon Pub.

OLD NOAKES
Peculiar things you hear these days to be sure.

TED SANDYMAN
(scoffing)
You do if you listen. Far-off tales and children’s stories, that’s all they are.

SAM
(quietly)
Even so.

TED SANDYMAN
(agressively)
What’s that, Samwise?

SAM
There may be more truth in some of those tales than you reckon.

TED SANDYMAN
If there is, it’s nought that need concern us.

SAM
Does it not? I’ve heard tell that the Elves are moving west, going to the harbours out beyond the White Towers.
(pauses - sadly)
They are leaving Middle-earth.

TED SANDYMAN
I don’t see what that matters to me or you. Let them sail! But I warrant you haven’t seem ‘em doing it; nor any one else in the Shire.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

SAM
There are some, even in these parts, as know a bit about Elves. Some even that talk with them.

TED SANDYMAN
(scoffing)
You’ve been working at Bag End too long Sam.

SAM
You can laugh - but old Mr Bilbo knew a thing or two, and Frodo is just the same.

TED SANDYMAN
They’re both cracked!

SAM
Why? Because they understand more than you or I? Walking trees - you make sense of it Ted. Tell me why that elm tree was on the North Moors when there hasn’t been an elm in those parts for a hundred years? And what made those tracks the Bounders found on the Southern border two nights ago? Huge they were - and half Farmer Cotton’s flock gone, not to mention his ponies.

SAM takes a swig of beer having successfully quietened TED.

SAM (cont’d)
Maybe it’s just as well there’s folk like Frodo Baggins about - seems to me some of those far-off tales are getting awfully close.

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

SAM - SCENE 2

In the stench-filled tunnels of the PASS to CIRITH UNGOL, SAM mortally wound’s the monstrous spider, SHELOB as it looms over the lifeless body of FRODO.

Heart still racing from fear and rage, SAM cannot rouse FRODO and believes him to be dead.

A terrible choice now faces SAM. To take the RING and go on with the journey, or stay try to make it back to the Shire alone.

SAM can see the myriad eyes of SHELOB glaring at him from the dark. He is reeling and exhausted but he knows he has severely wounded the monster.

SAM
(unafraid)
Come on, you filth! You will not touch him again. Come on - let me finish it!

SHELOB’S EYES disappear into the gloom and SAM slumps down beside FRODO, shaking him gently.

SAM
Frodo?

FRODO does not move. SAM lays his head on FRODO’s chest, then checks for breath. Nothing.

SAM
Frodo? ... Don’t leave me here alone. It’s Sam ... don’t go where I can’t follow. Wake up, Frodo. Wake up, wake up.

SAM is suddenly swamped by grief.

SAM
No! We can’t have come all this way for nothing! What do I do now? What do I do?

SAM slowly manages to pull himself together. He speaks to FRODO as if he could hear him.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

SAM
Go home? Leave you dead and unburied in these cursed mountains? Or go on?
(pause)
Go on. Is that what I must do? Let me think. Let me think. The war’s begun. There’s no way to go back. No, it’s sit here till they come and kill me over your body, and take the Ring; or go on to the end.

SAM thinks long and hard as if he’s listening to FRODO’s argument.

SAM
Go on, it is!

SAM reaches down to FRODO’S body and draws the chain holding the ring over FRODO’S head.

SAM
Goodbye Frodo, forgive me.

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

SARUMAN

Isengard, the dominion of the treacherous Wizard SARUMAN, has been destroyed by a combined army of men and Ents (huge treelike creatures). He has retreated to his fortress tower, Orthanc, from which he attempts to seduce King Theoden and his men with his magical, honeyed voice.

SARUMAN
My Lord of Rohan. The friendship of Saruman and the power of Orthanc cannot be lightly thrown aside, whatever grievances, real or imagined, may lie behind. You have won a battle, but not a war - and even then, only with such help as you cannot be certain of again. You may find the Shadow of the Wood at your own door next ... It is wayward, and senseless and has no love for Men.
(pause)
So, I am to be called a murderer, because valiant men have fallen in battle? If you go to war needlessly, for I did not desire it, then men will be slain. But, if I am a murderer on that account, then all your house is stained with blood. Many wars have the Kings of Rohan fought - many times have they assailed those who would defy them; yet also, with some, they have afterwards made peace, none the worse for being politic.
(pause)
Peace and friendship, Theoden, King. It is ours to command.

He smugly awaits the King’s response.

THEODEN
We will have peace. Yes.
(pause)
We will have peace when you and all your works have perished!

SARUMAN’s face goes dark as THEODEN continues.

THEODEN
You hold out your hand to me? I perceive only the dark claw of Mordor. You are a liar, Saruman! I do not lick your fingers any more. Look elsewhere for a cur.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

As the King’s words sink in, a change comes over SARUMAN. Venom spills out of him, stripping away his false guise of reasoned calm.

SARUMAN
Gibbets and crows! Dotard! What is the House of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek - their brats rolling on the floor amongst the dogs and filth? Too long has Rohan escaped the gibbet, but the noose comes, slow in the drawing, tight and hard in the end. Hang then, if you will!

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

THEODEN

GANDALF and his companions arrive at the Hall of Theoden, King of Rohan. They find the once heroic King wizened and bent. His spirit has been poisoned by his duplicitous Minister, GRIMA, commonly known as “WORMTONGUE”. GANDALF breaks GRIMA’s dark spell and reawakens the sleeping warrior.

THEODEN
(still groggy)
My world is dim, my dreams dark and dreary. I know your face.

GANDALF
Too long have you sat in the shadows, old friend, trusting twisted tales and crooked lies. Rise up!

As WORMTONGUE watches, helpless to intervene, the old King slowly rises to his feet, and starts down the stairs from his throne.

GANDALF (cont’d)
Open the doors! The Lord of the Mark comes forth!

The pale light of a Winter’s day floods the room, but to THEODEN, after years in the gloom of the Throne Room, all seems bright. It fills him with pain and wonder as he looks out over his domain.

THEODEN
(whisper)
My land.

He looks around at the sad and strained faces of his trusted servants, realises what they have been through.

THEODEN
My people.

THEODEN drops his stick. He stretches up, straight and tall - long forgotten strength flooding back through his veins.

GANDALF
Let the power return.

THEODEN
Yes - I feel it ...

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

THEODEN turns back to GANDALF.

THEODEN (CONT’D)
... but you raise up a King who let his subjects be driven to their knees. Eomer tried to warn me. Oh Gandalf, I would not listen. I threatened him with death ... one who loved me ... my own kin.

GANDALF
Do not let despair drive you back into the darkness. Your heart will remember its old strength better, if once again you hold your sword.

THEODEN puts his hand to his side. No sword hangs there. He hesitates - uncertain.

THEODEN
But where ...

THEODEN spies WORMTONGUE cowering in a corner.

THEODEN
You! **** you! Where have you stowed it ...

A figure steps forward. THEODEN turns and faces his estranged nephew, EOMER. EOMER kneels, offering his sword.

EOMER
It was ever at your service.

THEODEN
How is this ... ?

GANDALF
Will you not take the sword?

After a long moment, THEODEN stretches out his hand. As his fingers touch the hilt, it seems that firmness and strength return to his arm. He suddenly lifts the blade, swings it whistling through the air.

THEODEN
Haaaaa!

THEODEN offers his sword back to EOMER.

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

THEODEN
Take back your sword, Eomer. I will find my own, wherever that confounded slug has hidden it.
(announces)
Those who would follow me, listen! We go to war! I shall take the vanguard, and if I fall, it will be in the front of the battle. Thus, shall I sleep better.
(ringing tone)
Arise now, Riders of the Mark! Sound the horns! We ride forth! Forth to War!

-END-

------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD OF THE RINGS - (c) Three Foot Six Ltd.

WORMTONGUE

The Wizard GANDALF storms the court of THEODEN, the once mighty King of Rohan. THEODEN has been reduced to a senile and doddering old man by the evil influence of SARUMAN, another powerful Wizard, whose armies of Orcs threaten to overthrow Rohan. GRIMA WORMTONGUE, a supposedly loyal Minister of the Court, spits venom at GANDALF.

THEODEN, too decrepit to stand, eyes GANDALF warily from his huge throne.

THEODEN
You come here unbidden. Why should we welcome you?

From out of the shadows of the throne steps WORMTONGUE.

WORMTONGUE
A just question, my Liege. Even now we learn from Gondor that the Dark Lord is moving in the East. Late is the hour in which this conjuror chooses to return.

Emboldened, WORMTONGUE steps even closer to GANDALF.

WORMTONGUE (cont’d)
Why indeed should we welcome you, Master Stormcrow? Lathspell I name you. Ill news is an ill guest they say.

He laughs snidely at his own cleverness.

GANDALF
(softly)
In two ways may a man come with evil tidings; he may be a worker of evil; or he may be the one who comes only when aid is needed.

WORMTONGUE addresses GANDALF with half an eye on THEODEN.

WORMTONGUE
There is a third kind: pickers of bones, meddlers in other men’s sorrows, carrion-fowl that grow fat on war. What aid have you ever brought, Stormcrow? And what aid do you bring now? Did you bring men? Do you bring horses and spears?

(CONTINUED)

CONTINUED:

WORMTONGUE (cont’d)
That I would call aid; that is our present need. But who are these three that follow at your tail? Three ragged wanderers in grey, and you yourself the most beggar-like of the four!

GANDALF steps forward, pulling from beneath the folds of his cloak his wizard’s staff!

GANDALF
Hold your tongue you witless worm!

WORMTONGUE cowers, no longer brave but squealing with fright at the ROYAL GUARDS.

WORMTONGUE
His staff! Did I not order you to take his staff!

He scurries for the cover behind the throne.

-END-


Hama.
User avatar
Hama
Ranger of the North


 
Posts: 4892
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 10:10 pm
Top

Postby ArPharazon » Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:43 am

It may surprise those who recall my previous posts in this forum, but if anything since seeing ROTK I have become even more revisionist in my views. :shock:

I fel that ROTK was seriously flawed as a film by seeking to stick to closely to a staructure that - while it works in the book - is totally inappropriate for a film.

We have Pelennor closely followed by the Battle at the Black Gates - one (inevitably the latter) is bound to be anti-climactic.

We then have the re-union in MT; the coronation; the return to the Shire; Frodo's decline and Sam's marriage; the Grey Havens and sam's return home. All crammed into 20 minutes when, to a general audience, the film ended with the destruction of the Ring/fall of Sauron and/or the Coronation.

In my view, far, far better to have been much more drastic with the surgery in drafting the scripts, and a 2 film deal might have forced this essential re-thinking.

Now it may be that the ROTK:SE when it is released will be fine. I am increasingly of the view that we watch the film (in a cinema) and the dvd on a TV in different ways. The Se can afford to be more literal and faithful to the book.

PJ was placed in an impossible position - with 2 films he would have been criticised by some whatever approach he had adopted, because much would inevitably have had to be omitted or dealt with differently to the book. Two films would have imposed a different structure since the first film would almost certainly need to end in a different place to any of the books.

Three films almost assumes 1 book = 1 film. This was - to all practical purposes - the position in the three films we have. PJ moved a few elements but left the structure pretty well intact overall.

Now I want to make it clear that I would have deeply regretted any omissions from the books, but I do recognise that books and films are different. A two film deal would have meant greater creative tension and perhaps better films - though with loss of strict faithfulness. For that reason I would be interested to see the original treatments - especially that for the proposed Film 2.

On a separate point, PJ's FOTR points up the fact that people can find themselves suddenly thrown into an adventure - literally swept off their feet. Gandalf's song on his arrival in the Shire and Frodo/Bilbo's words as he and Sam walk together through the shire (shortly before meeting M&P in the corn-field) reinforce the point.

ArPhy
User avatar
ArPharazon
Mariner

 
Posts: 6743
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:21 pm
Top

Postby Luinnenion » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:35 am

ArPharazon wrote:We have Pelennor closely followed by the Battle at the Black Gates - one (inevitably the latter) is bound to be anti-climactic.

ArPhy


You found the Black Gates...anti-climatic? Uh, wow.
User avatar
Luinnenion
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 1553
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2002 1:12 am
Top

Postby jaybee » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:45 am

The eagle flying with Gandalf over Helm's Deep was mentioned in one of the Art of Books. I think it is not a through back to the two script treatment but is just an early thought for the three films. The book stated that it was simply to be a nod to events in the second film, a sort of Teaser to Helm's Deep. Gandalf certainly was never intended to Land their (and probably they never intended him in the films to go to Rohan before Hobbiton). I think the reason they said they didn't do it was that Helm's Deep would not be referred to again until the next film.
User avatar
jaybee
Citizen of Imladris

 
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 9:18 am
Top

Postby ArPharazon » Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:53 am

I think I was "shell-shocked" (almsot literally) by then.

The action was never going to be able to top Pelennor and the charge of the Rohirrim. I liked Aragorn's speech, but the actual battle was poorly choreographed and lamely shot.

As hypothesised some months ago (prior to my absence) PJ had had second thoughts about how to deal with Sauron at the final battle and this change further weakened things - Aragorn's fight with the troll (I assume cgi'd in to replace the Dark Lord himself) is an example.

I recognise PJ's dilemma - that to have made the two battles one would have required drastic changes to geography and plot, but two huge battles so close together really does test an audience.

In act THREE battles - as there is the arrival of Aragorn to be considered. Leaving aside the question of cutting away from the Eowyn/Angmar duel, PJ decided that this should be handled briefly (understandable) and humourously (a misjudgement IMHO). But he had no option to film and include this - but clearly the pressure was on him and the weaknesses are evident.

We have to be honest here in asserting what our views are about. It seems to me one can legitimately argue for:

a) doing the best for the film (whatever the cost to the book);
b) giving the book primacy even if this impacts on the film's quality;
c) seeking a compromise (though this may offend film buffs and book-lovers).

In FOTR and TTT, I think PJ sought c (merged into b) and was probably about right. The structure of the books was broadly manageable. For ROTK I think he went for (b) - although he ditched the Scouring early - whereas I think he should have gone for (a) as the structure of ROTK-book is unfilmable for all practical purposes.

I look forward to the SE as this will, I think, restore some balance to the film, though at the cost of length. It would have been unshowable to general audiences, however much we fans of the book may love it.

I sense I am moving close to Bernd's old position here.

ArPhy
User avatar
ArPharazon
Mariner

 
Posts: 6743
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:21 pm
Top

Postby TheLidlessEyes » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:02 am

Will vynaca be happy about this rather unexpected turn?

I for one would have preferred a two film treatment, if only to still have some money in the bank.
User avatar
TheLidlessEyes
Mariner


 
Posts: 9760
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2002 8:47 am
Top

Postby Kezmoid » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:30 am

:shock: I can't believe it; ArPhy's back! (Good to see you again. :) )

And I also can't believe that I'm going to argue with him, about this point.

ArPharazon wrote:The action was never going to be able to top Pelennor and the charge of the Rohirrim. I liked Aragorn's speech, but the actual battle was poorly choreographed and lamely shot.


No, the battle wasn't going to "top the Pelennor" but nor was it meant to. The battle at the Black Gate was merely a sideshow to the real action taking place in Mount Doom. It was basically just a large press of bodies, but that's all it needed to be for the brief scenes of the battle to remind the audience that the fate of the Army of the West hangs in the balance and increase the suspense in the Sammath Naur.

However, I do agree that more of a "breather" is needed between the end of the Pelennor and the battle at the Black Gate.

(That "press-of-bodies" type of battle, where the two opposing armies are fighting jam-packed together and you can't really tell what's going on within the battle, usually happens all the time in big battle scenes in movies and, IMO, can't really be helped; I think the key is not to dwell on it otherwise it gets boring. The film-makers should, and usually do, throw in some variety to the battle and that's one thing PJ is good at. In fact, I didn't really realise how much I appreciated that until I saw Troy.)
User avatar
Kezmoid
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 8:24 am
Top

Postby ArPharazon » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:54 pm

:) It's good to see you again Kez!! :lol:

Probably there is not much between our views. But I don't think The Black Gates battle was well handled (at least by PJ's high standards). It's not just the fighting - its the collapse of Barad-dur, the weak troll (pseudo-Sauron IMHO), a lapse in continuity (I think but will have to check) and an indecisiveness about the sequence that I think stems from late changes of mind by PJ.

The ROTK:SE may flow better but only by adding length which would not have made it a good FILM (ie for cinema showing) even if it is wonderful on dvd.

In a two film version - to get this thread back on track - I think the Black gates would have been cut and that would have been an improvement as FILM.

ArPhy :wink:
User avatar
ArPharazon
Mariner

 
Posts: 6743
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:21 pm
Top

Postby Lord_Morningstar » Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:56 pm

In relation to the two posts above mine (ArPhy and Kez’s):

I liked the battle at the Black Gate better than the latter part of the Pelennor and thought it was both more climatic and more emotionally charged. However, more of a breather is certainly needed (which is one reason why I think VoS and its accompying material should have been in TTT as it would have had a more natural start and more room for extra material).

Personally, I thought the centre battle piece of Troy was handled just as well if not better than HD, the Pelennor and the battle at the black gate. For one, it had a natural build up, play out and resolution, for another, it found a great balance between the big picture and the individual level action, and it had a greater feeling of tension and realism and it was devoid of jokes and silly stunts. PJ manages to pull a battle even better than that off at Osgilliath, but not with his main battles IMHO.

Edited as typos led to unintentional references to British politics.
User avatar
Lord_Morningstar
Mariner

 
Posts: 7817
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:09 am
Location: Queensland, Australia
Top

Postby eborr » Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:36 am

I think a two film treatment could have worked quite well, in that there would have been the opportunity to get rid of some of the rubbishy additions and also to shorten the battle at helms deep. I also think that there is some merit in shortenting the ending at least for the cinema release.

Once you have excised the Scouring, much of the value of extending the film beyond the Royal Wedding is diminished, although I guess it is important to show that amidst the happy endings for Aragorn, Faramir, Eowyn,Arwen, Bilbo and Gandalf there is loss, for Frodo, and for Galadriel and Elrond, although this isn't shown. Of couse real courage would have been to create a fourth film with the proper ending.
User avatar
eborr
Ranger of the North
 
Posts: 2152
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2002 3:29 am
Top

Postby Hama » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:03 am

That is just it though, isn't it. Excisions and additions. If the build up to the black gate had been handled better, and the scouring included, the ending would have been far superior in my view, and would have worked as a film.

The two film treatment may have worked as a film (not convinced BTW) but the three film solution was a much better idea. It is a shame that needless additions marred the finished product. (Roll on the special extended editions).

Hama.
User avatar
Hama
Ranger of the North


 
Posts: 4892
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 1999 10:10 pm
Top

Postby AlatarVinyamar » Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:43 am

eborr wrote:I think a two film treatment could have worked quite well, in that there would have been the opportunity to
get rid of some of the rubbishy additions and also to shorten the battle at helms deep.


This may be true, however, there's no guarantee that the things dropped would necessarily have been the additions. It's quite concievable that PJ would have chosen to keep (for example) the "Aragorn off a cliff" scene because he wants to keep Arwen involved and ended up dropping the Ent attack on Isengard. What's more likely is that he would have tried to solve the problem in a different way and would have just brought Arwen to Helm's Deep as planned. Much as I dislike the Fake Death scene, I far prefer it to having AAHD which was the original plan, and presumably was a holdover from the 2 film treatment when less time was available to set up the characters and their motivations.

I suppose another way to look at this is that the Trilogy as first announced was to be 6 Hours long, namely 3 movies of 2 Hours each. How would PJ have trimmed the existing theatrical cuts to get them down to 2 hours each? Would he have removed all the unnecessary (if memorable) additions like the stairway in Moria or is it more likely that Sam and Frodo's moment in the cornfield would have got the chop? I think that PJ would have still had the shield surfing moments and what we would have lost would be the more intimate and character driven sections.

The two film treatment would probably have suffered even more in the Action vs Character stakes.
User avatar
AlatarVinyamar
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 7:09 am
Top

Postby Lord_Morningstar » Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:16 am

A two film treatment could have worked; personally, I would have been inclined to make major cuts like Helm’s Deep and Lothlorien and destroyed the Ring during the Pelennor rather than trying to keep everything and trim it. However, I fear that PJ would have done as Alatar suggested.
User avatar
Lord_Morningstar
Mariner

 
Posts: 7817
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:09 am
Location: Queensland, Australia
Top

Postby Semprini » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:14 am

ArPhy>>>but if anything since seeing ROTK I have become even more revisionist in my views. I fel that ROTK was seriously flawed as a film by seeking to stick to closely to a staructure that - while it works in the book - is totally inappropriate for a film.

Hi Arphy!:)

IMO, you have become more purist. :) Purism should be a faithfulness to the themes, spirit and atmosphere of a book not to its narration on the surface, especially the narration of a half mythology/adventure book like LOTR where embedded metaphors are so important. The narration of the book should not be strictly abided by if it results in a rushed pace, depriving events of their meaning, and making for a clumsy movie unfaithful to the book by its emphasis on action scenes, flip-flops and reversals killing the power of wait. Other purists like Queen B and Jnyusa would agree with this definition of purism now, I think.
User avatar
Semprini
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 1:00 am
Top

Postby Queen_Beruthiel » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:17 am

Yes. But lookee at this, which seems to have fallen out of a clear blue sky:

I fel that ROTK was seriously flawed as a film ...


:D Good job this smiley-thingy is back. We need about a million of 'em.
User avatar
Queen_Beruthiel
Ranger of the North

 
Posts: 2921
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2002 12:28 pm
Top

Postby ArPharazon » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:35 am

But note that I blame the structure of the book, NOT PJ as a film-maker!! :D :roll:
User avatar
ArPharazon
Mariner

 
Posts: 6743
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2001 1:21 pm
Top

Postby thebachelor » Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:01 am

I had never read those infamous audition scripts before, even though I had read many, mnay posts about them. It looks to me like parts of them were simply written for the purposes of the auditions -- for example, the reference to a "skirmish in the south" prior to the passage of the Paths of the Dead doesn't necessarily mean any such event was contemplated for the films. Large parts of them also seem to consist of dialogue hurriedly cut and pasted from the books, without considering what was important and effective for the films, reflecting either a first draft of the scripts written simply to get a cinematic handle on the story or a hastily concocted group of audition scenes.

In this connection it's interesting that the audition scripts include at least two memorable concepts from the books that were omitted in both Editions of the finished films. Gimli being blindfolded in Lorien was, IIRC, omitted even from the BBC Radio LotR, and was probably included in the audition scripts only because it was a good scene by which to judge actors' suitability to the roles of Gimli and Legolas, not because it was actually intended to be in the film. Faramir learning about the Ring from Sam rather than Gollum was one of the things I missed most in the TT film, and in this case the greater faithfulness to the book may indeed reflect the tauter structure of a two-film version, which probably would not have had time for Faramir to bring the Hobbits to Osgiliath. (I recall PJ being quoted as saying that the Faramir section of TT was built up more when the three-film script was written.)

I think these scripts probably give us only slight indications of what the VoS and HoH scenes and the extended Denethor and Mordor scenes will be like in the RotK EE. (This is especially true of the VoS, since new material was filmed for that sequence with Christopher Lee during the RotK reshoots in 2003.)
User avatar
thebachelor
Rider of the Mark
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 11:14 am
Top

Next

Return to Movies and Media: Tolkien

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests