Strange relations Kerry & Bush? - The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and Tolkien

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Strange relations Kerry & Bush?

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LadyCoralie

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Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:06 pm

Strange relations Kerry & Bush? Believe it or not, both of the silly twits are related to each other! http://msn.ancestry.com/landing/strange/bush4/tree.htm

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Almatolmen
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Posted: Wed Sep 1, 2004 9:01 am

Their ninth cousins, thrice removed, with Kerry belonging to the same gereration as GW's great-grandfather. This is not all that surprising. Many of our presidents are distantly related to one another and likely to their opponents. Our political elites are greatly intermarried. There are also many connections to the Scots and English royal families among our presidents. I know that the Bushes are cousins to QE II, and it wouldn't surprise me if the same was true of Kerry. Other ways in which GWB and JFKerry are related: Sen. John Forbes Kerry is related, in a number of ways, to George Walker Bush, the current (2004) US President. The closest relationships known at this time are in the 10th cousin range. In several cases, Sen. Kerry is descended from one child of a Seventeenth-century New England colonial immigrant, while Pres. Bush is descended from another child of the same Seventeenth-century New England colonial immigrant. Henry Herrick m. Edith Laskin Zachariah Herrick m. Mary Dodge Siblings Ephraim Herrick m. Mary Cross Mary Herrick m. John Bachelder 1st Cousins Samuel Herrick m. Mehitabel Woodward Mary Bachelder m. Paul Thorndike 2nd Cousins Daniel Herrick m. Elizabeth Rust Andrew Thorndike m. Anna Morgan 3rd Cousins Samuel Herrick m. Silence Kingsley Israel Thorndike m. Mercy Trask 4th Cousins Sarah Herrick m. Rev. Nathaniel Butler Elizabeth Thorndike m. Ebenezer Francis 5th Cousins Samuel Herrick Butler m. Judith Livingston Sarah Ellen Francis m. Robert Means Mason 6th Cousins Courtland Philip Livingston Butler m. Elizabeth Slade Pierce Elizabeth Mason m. Robert Charles Winthrop 7th Cousins Mary Elizabeth Butler m. Robert Emmet Sheldon Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 8th Cousins Flora Sheldon m. Samuel Prescott Bush Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 9th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker JOHN FORBES KERRY 10th Cousins George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce 10th Cousins Once Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Henry Herrick of Salem, Massachusetts, Pres. Bush is a 10th cousin once removed of Sen. Kerry. John Dwight m. Hannah ---- Mary Dwight m. Henry Phillips Siblings Hannah Dwight m. Nathaniel Whiting John Phillips m. Mary Gross 1st Cousins Nathaniel Whiting m. Joanna Gay Abigail Phillips m. John Erving 2nd Cousins Samuel Whiting m. Mary Clark Elizabeth Erving m. James Bowdoin 3rd Cousins Ephraim Whiting m. Abigail Mason Elizabeth Bowdoin m. John Temple 4th Cousins Susanna Whiting m. Benjamin Butler Elizabeth Bowdoin Temple m. Thomas Lindall Winthrop 5th Cousins Nathaniel Butler m. Sarah Herrick Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Cabot Blanchard 6th Cousins Samuel Herrick Butler m. Judith Livingston Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Mason 7th Cousins Courtland Philip Livingston Butler m. Elizabeth Slade Pierce Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 8th Cousins Mary Elizabeth Butler m. Robert Emmet Sheldon Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard Kohn Kerry 9th Cousins Flora Sheldon m. Samuel Prescott Bush JOHN FORBES KERRY 10th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker 10th Cousins Once Removed George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce 10th Cousins Twice Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from John Dwight of Dedham, Massachusetts, Pres. Bush is a 10th cousin twice removed of Sen. Kerry. Thomas Richards m. Wealthean (Loring?) Ann Richards m. Ephraim Hunt Siblings Mary Richards m. Thomas Hinckley Thomas Hunt m. Judith Torrey 1st Cousins Samuel Hinckley m. Sarah Pope Samuel Hunt m. Mary Langdon 2nd Cousins Mary Hinckley m. Samuel Bangs Elizabeth Hunt m. Joshua Blanchard 3rd Cousins Joseph Bangs m. Thankful Hamlin Samuel Blanchard m. Elizabeth Gardner 4th Cousins Lemuel Bangs m. Rebecca Keeler Francis Blanchard m. Mary Ann Cabot 5th Cousins Elijah Keeler Bangs m. Esther Stackhouse Elizabeth Cabot Blanchard m. Robert Charles Winthrop 6th Cousins Mary Ann Bangs m. Joseph Ambrose Beaky Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Mason 7th Cousins Martha Adela Beaky m. David Davis Walker Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 8th Cousins George Herbert Walker m. Lucretia Wear Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 9th Cousins Dorothy Walker m. Prescott Sheldon Bush JOHN FORBES KERRY 10th Cousins George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce 10th Cousins Once Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Thomas Richards of Weymouth, Massachusetts, Pres. Bush is a 10th cousin once removed of Sen. Kerry. In other cases, Sen. Kerry is descended from a seventeenth-century New England colonial immigrant who is closely related to a seventeenth-century New England colonial immigrant that Pres. Bush is descended from. For example, Mrs. Elizabeth Reade Winthrop of Connecticut, an ancestor of Sen. Kerry, was a sister of Mrs. Margaret Reade Lake of Connecticut, an ancestor of Pres. Bush. Edmund Reade m. Elizabeth Cooke Elizabeth Reade m. John Winthrop Siblings Margaret Reade m. John Lake Wait Still Winthrop m. Mary Browne 1st Cousins Hannah Lake m. John Gallup John Winthrop m. Ann Dudley 2nd Cousins Elizabeth Gallup m. Henry Stevens John Still Winthrop m. Jane Borland 3rd Cousins Henry Stevens m. Elizabeth Fellows Thomas Lindall Winthrop m. Elizabeth Bowdoin Temple 4th Cousins Lucy Stevens m. Ephraim Smith Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Cabot Blanchard 5th Cousins Sanford Smith m. Priscilla Whippo Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Mason 6th Cousins Harriet Smith m. Obadiah Newcomb Bush Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 7th Cousins James Smith Bush m. Harriet Eleanor Fay Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 8th Cousins Samuel Prescott Bush m. Flora Sheldon JOHN FORBES KERRY 9th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker 9th Cousins Once Removed George Herbert Walker Bush . Barbara Pierce 9th Cousins Twice Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Edmund Reade of Wickford, co. Essex, Pres. Bush is a 9th cousin twice removed of Sen. Kerry. Mrs. Elizabeth St. John Whiting of Lynn, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Sen. Kerry, was a niece of Rev. Peter Bukleley of Concord, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Pres. Bush. Rev. Edward Bulkeley m. Olive Irby Sarah Bulkeley m. Oliver St. John Siblings Rev. Peter Bulkeley m. Jane Allen Elizabeth St. John m. Rev. Samuel Whiting 1st Cousins Edward Bulkeley m. Lucian ---- Elizabeth Whiting m. Jeremiah Hobart 2nd Cousins Peter Bulkeley m. Rebecca Wheeler Dorothy Hobart m. Daniel Mason 3rd Cousins Rebecca Bulkeley m. Jonathan Prescott Jeremiah Mason m. Mary Clark 4th Cousins Abel Prescott m. Abigail Brigham Jeremiah Mason m. Elizabeth Fitch 5th Cousins Lucy Prescott m. Jonathan Fay Jeremiah Mason m. Mary Means 6th Cousins Samuel Prescott Phillips Fay m. Harriet Howard Robert Means Mason m. Sarah Ellen Francis 7th Cousins Samuel Howard Fay m. Susan Shellman Elizabeth Mason m. Robert Charles Winthrop 8th Cousins Harriet Eleanor Fay m. James Smith Bush Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 9th Cousins Samuel Prescott Bush m. Flora Sheldon Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 10th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker JOHN FORBES KERRY 11th Cousins George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce 11th Cousins Once Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Rev. Edward Bukleley of Odell, Bedfordshire, Pres. Bush is an 11th cousin once removed of Sen. Kerry. Mrs. Barbara Clapp Weld of Roxbury, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Sen. Kerry, was a half first cousin of Mrs. Jane Clapp Weeks of Dorchester, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Pres. Bush. Christian ---- m2. Richard Clapp m1. ---- Nicholas Clapp m. Elizabeth ---- Half Siblings William Clapp m. Joan Channon Barbara Clapp m. Joseph Weld Half 1st Cousins Jane Clapp m. George Weeks Daniel Weld m. Bethia Mitchelson Half 2nd Cousins William Weeks m. Elizabeth ---- Elizabeth Weld m. John Gardner Half 3rd Cousins Renew Weeks m. Benjamin Carpenter John Gardner m. Elizabeth Putnam Half 4th Cousins Keziah Carpenter m. Thomas Horton John Gardner m. Elizabeth Pickering Half 5th Cousins Submit Horton m. Jeremiah Wheeler Elizabeth Gardner m. Samuel Blanchard Half 6th Cousins Jarvis Wheeler m. Sarah Horton Francis Blanchard m. Mary Ann Cabot Half 7th Cousins Betsy S. Wheeler m. Levi Pierce Elizabeth Cabot Blanchard m. Robert Charles Winthrop Half 8th Cousins Elizabeth Slade Pierce m. Courtland Philip Livingston Butler Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Mason Half 9th Cousins Mary Elizabeth Butler m. Robert Emmet Sheldon Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes Half 10th Cousins Flora Sheldon m. Samuel Prescott Bush Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry Half 11th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker JOHN FORBES KERRY Half 12th Cousins George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce Half 12th Cousins Once Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Richard Clapp of Sidbury, Devon, Pres. Bush is a half 12th cousin once removed of Sen. Kerry. Mrs. Mary Angier Sparhawk of Cambridge, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Sen. Kerry, was a second cousin of Philip Sherman of Portsmouth, Rhode Island, an ancestor of Pres. Bush. Henry Sherman m. Agnes (Butter?) Edmund Sherman m. Anne Pellatte Siblings Henry Sherman m. Susan Lawrence Anne Sherman m. John Angier 1st Cousins Samuel Sherman m. Philippa (Ward?) Mary Angier m. Nathaniel Sparhawk 2nd Cousins Philip Sherman m. Sarah Odding Anne Sparhawk m. John Cooper 3rd Cousins John Sherman m. Sarah Spooner Lydia Cooper m. John Francis 4th Cousins Hannah Sherman m. William Bourn Ebenezer Francis m. Rachel Whitmore 5th Cousins William Bourn m. Mary Sheffield Ebenezer Francis m. Judith Wood 6th Cousins Hannah Bourn m. William Fitch Ebenezer Francis m. Elizabeth Thorndike 7th Cousins Anna Fitch m. Isaac Pierce Sarah Ellen Francis m. Robert Means Mason 8th Cousins Levi Pierce m. Betsy S. Wheeler Elizabeth Mason m. Robert Charles Winthrop 9th Cousins Elizabeth Slade Pierce m. Courtland Philip Livingston Butler Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 10th Cousins Mary Elizabeth Butler m. Robert Emmet Sheldon Rosemary Isabel Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 11th Cousins Flora Sheldon m. Samuel Prescott Bush JOHN FORBES KERRY 12th Cousins Prescott Sheldon Bush m. Dorothy Walker 12th Cousins Once Removed George Herbert Walker Bush m. Barbara Pierce 12th Cousins Twice Removed GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from Henry Sherman of Dedham, Essex, Pres. Bush is a 12th cousin twice removed of Sen. Kerry. In addition, Rev. Henry Whitfield of Guilford, Connecticut, an ancestor of Sen. Kerry, was a second cousin of Richard Waters of Salem, Massachusetts, an ancestor of Pres. Bush. John Manning m. Agnes Petley Henry Manning m. Catherine Kerkener Siblings George Manning m. Joanna Wallys Fortuna Mildred Manning m. Thomas Whitfield 1st Cousins Phebe Manning m. James Waters Rev Henry Whitfield m. Dorothy Sheafe 2nd Cousins Richard Waters m. Joyce ---- Sarah Whitfield m. Rev. John Higginson 3rd Cousins Susannah Waters m. Benedict Pulsifer John Higginson m. Sarah Savage 4th Cousins Richard Pulsifer m. Ruth Gold John Higginson m. Hannah Gardner 5th Cousins William Pulsifer m. Mary Lovell John Higginson m. Ruth Boardman 6th Cousins Elizabeth Pulsifer m. Daniel Hill Elizabeth Higginson m. Joseph Cabot 7th Cousins Daniel Hill m. Mercy Hayward Francis Cabot m. Anna (Nancy) Clarke 8th Cousins Mercy Hill m. John Holbrook Mary Ann Cabot m. Francis Blanchard 9th Cousins Chloe Holbrook m. Gen James Pierce Elizabeth Cabot Blanchard m. Robert Charles Winthrop 10th Cousins Jonas James Pierce m. Kate Pritzel Robert Charles Winthrop m. Elizabeth Mason 11th Cousins Scott Pierce m. Mabel Marvin Margaret Tyndal Winthrop m. James Grant Forbes 12th Cousins Marvin Pierce m. Pauline Robinson Rosemary Isabelle Forbes m. Richard John Kerry 13th Cousins Barbara Pierce m. George Herbert Walker Bush JOHN FORBES KERRY 14th Cousins GEORGE WALKER BUSH So through their shared descent from John Manning of Downe, Kent, Pres. Bush is a 14th cousin of Sen. Kerry. Relationships such as these between Sen. Kerry and Pres. Bush are typical for any two random living (2004) persons with significant New England colonial ancestry. Other, more distant, relationships between these two are easy to trace.

Last edited by Almatolmen on Wed Sep 1, 2004 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total

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Almatolmen
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Posted: Wed Sep 1, 2004 10:19 am

Here's a link showing the relationship between GW and GWB: http://users.legacyfamilytree.com/USPresidents/wash_bush.htm And another showing some royal connections: http://users.legacyfamilytree.com/USPresidents/royal.htm Diana, Princess of Wales, was related to four US presidents through her Spenser ancestry: George Washington, Calvin Coolidge, FDR (twice), and the Bushes. Al Gore is an eighth cousin, once removed of RMN. Only 12 presidents were unrelated to any of the other presidents: http://library.thinkquest.org/TQ0312172/cousins.html Other famous relatives of both men: http://www.familyforest.com/Kerry_Bush_Cousins.html Quote: BLUE BLOOD: Kerry is related to King Harald TV2 Norway \| April 22 2004 The Democrat's president candidate John Kerry is related to King Harald of Norway, and according to one expert, royal relation ensures that he will win the election this fall. Not only did Kerry live a couple of years in Oslo during his youth, he is also related with the Norwegian King, according to Harold Brooks-Baker, director of Burke's Peerage, the «bible» of the European royal families. «He is not only related to the Queen of England on his mother's side, but also to the Queen of the Netherlands, the Queen of Denmark and the King of Norway, and other European royal families,» stated Brooks- Baker. «Even Princess Diana was a distant relative.» And it is precisely Kerry's connections to the royal families that may ensure him the victory in this falls presidential election, according to Brooks-Baker. According to the expert, the candidate who has the most royal blood pulsing in his veins has won every American presidential election since the time of George Washington. Also President George W. Bush is of blue blood, but not as much as Kerry. Bush is a descendent of Edward I of England. «But on his mother's side, Kerry is the direct descendent of John Winthrop, the first governor of the Bay Colony in Massachusetts. And through this Winthrop connection, Kerry has more royal and aristocratic relatives than Bush,» Brooks-Baker stated. «Even if many think that Bush is going to win, I would bet my money on Kerry. The royal rule always works. The candidate who has the most royal connections always wins. It is the most particular pattern, and this can't be accidental,» Brooks-Baker said, according to the National Enquirer. Kerry's royal roots will give him victory, says Burke's Quote: Kate Kelland Tuesday August 17, 2004 The Guardian When it comes to American presidential elections, blue blood counts. So say British researchers who predict that Democratic challenger John Kerry will oust President George Bush on November 2 because he boasts more royal connections than his Republican rival. After months of research into Mr Kerry's ancestry, Burke's Peerage, experts on British aristocracy, reported yesterday that the Vietnam war veteran is related to all the royal houses of Europe and can claim kinship with Tsar Ivan "The Terrible", a previous Emperor of Byzantium and the Shahs of Persia. Burke's director, Harold Brooks-Baker, said Mr Kerry had his mother, Rosemary Forbes, to thank for most of his royal connections. "Every maternal blood line of Kerry makes him more royal than any previous American president," Mr Brooks-Baker said. "Because of the fact that every presidential candidate with the most royal genes and chromosomes has always won the November presidential election, the coming election - based on 42 previous presidents - will go to John Kerry." Similar research carried out on Mr Bush ahead of the 2000 presidential race showed that he beat Al Gore in the royal stakes, claiming kinship with Britain's Queen Elizabeth as well as with Kings Henry III and Charles II of England. Mr Kerry is a descendant of Henry III and Henry II of England and is distantly related to Richard the Lionheart, who led the third crusade in 1189, according to Burke's. He is also descended from Henry I, King of France and his wife, Anne of Kiev, giving him kinship with the royal houses of Sweden, Norway, Denmark and the House of Rus. Burke's research showed Mr Kerry also has historical political connections in the United States. He is closely related to John Winthrop, the first Massachusetts governor - the state for which he is now a senator - and his maternal grandmother was the granddaughter of Robert Winthrop, who was speaker of the House of Representatives from 1847 to 1849. Garfield was a Charlemagne descendent, as was Coolidge and Hayes. Pierce, Buchanan, and Taft were descendents of William the Conqueror; descendents of Edward I include Madison, the Harrisons, Cleveland, Ford and the Bushes (as well as Walt Disney and Colin Powell). For other royal descents see: http://www.compapp.dcu.ie/~humphrys/FamTree/Royal/famous.descents.html

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Denethor
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Posted: Wed Sep 1, 2004 7:08 pm

Quote: "Because of the fact that every presidential candidate with the most royal genes and chromosomes has always won the November presidential election, the coming election - based on 42 previous presidents - will go to John Kerry." So Bill Clinton had more royal genes than George Bush senior? I'm not an expert on US history, but the point about royal genes equating to victory would be pretty clearly disproved by looking up the list of presidents. In 1888 Benjamin Harrison beat Grover Cleveland. In 1892 Grover Cleveland beat Benjamin Harrison. One of them has to be more royal than the other, which means either in 1888 or 1892 the least royal candidate won.

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Minardil
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Posted: Thu Sep 2, 2004 4:34 am

Quote: One of them has to be more royal than the other Unless they were both EXACTLY as loyal. I bet they were both descended from Bonnie Prince Charlie, Mary Queen of Scots, and Napoleon. Everyone is, you know. Just ask 'em. Or, they might both have been common as dirt.

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Smallbottle
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Posted: Thu Sep 2, 2004 5:06 am

A large number of American presidents -- Washington, Nixon, Reagan -- have been distantly related to the British royal family. The reason is simple. Americans who can trace roots back to the earliest colonists -- and there are millions of them today -- are all descended from a miniscule population emigrated from a small country. Since the earliest colonists had royal connections, their copious descendants do, too. Who knows how many people on this board have royal blood, if their geneaologies were as subject to scrutiny as an American president's?

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Aravar
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Posted: Thu Sep 2, 2004 5:27 am

Smallbottle, most probably. IIRC Professor Steve Jones, who is Professor, I think, of genetics at University College London has written to the effect that it is likely that most people in England can trace a line of descent back to the conqueror, and probaly most people in Europe to a Roman Emperor (Nero, I think). That is just because if one goes back far enough there simply weren't enough people to cover the number of separate ancestors on would have to have.

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bab5nutz
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Posted: Thu Sep 2, 2004 5:38 am

I guess you're talking about Kerry's maternal ancestry? Because I understand that Kerry's paternal grandparents came from Prague, and that their name originally was Kohn. They came to the States and went into business. In those days, it was much easier to get by in the States in you had an Anglo-Saxon sounding name and were Christian. So, 'Kohn' became 'Kerry' and they converted to Catholicism.

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Almatolmen
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Posted: Wed Sep 8, 2004 7:30 am

Yes, most of the links I placed explicitly explain that the connections made here are from his maternal ancestry. A casual read would have clarified that. There is a significant difference to most of us between making a statisitical claim (I believe that it is often stated that anyone of West European descent is probably a descendent of Charlemagne, most Asians are descended from Gengis Khan; other statistical claims are that if an individual living before 800 CE can demonstrate even one living descendent, then everyone on Earth is descended from that person: e.g. Kung Fu-tze, Aaron brother of Moses, the 'kings' of Ulster, and other Irish provinces,etc) and being able to demonstrate a documented every generation lineage, which is the case in these instances. As to the claim of 'victory to the most royal': well. I don't know these lineages in enough detail to test the allegation, but Debrett's is the definitive authority in such matters and they probably have it right--though repeat contest like the once cited might be exceptions. And yes, probably every one on this board has royal descent, all unknowing. None of my known ancestors, back to the 1520s, has any known royal relationships and I never got into genealogy for that kind of 'snob appeal'. The only reason I've ever wished for a royal or aristocratic line is because such families are far more likely to have well-documented genealogies. I believe that it's somewhere in The Robe that it was written that if everyone trace their ancestry back far enough they'd find kings--but they's also find slaves! No one has reason to take pride in their ancestors because of who they were--no one chooses either their antecedants or their posterity.

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