The End of All Things [RotK:EE in hand!] [MASSIVE SPOILERS]

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The End of All Things [RotK:EE in hand!] [MASSIVE SPOILERS]

Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:23 pm

Hey y'all,

Just got my RotK:EE and popped it in! [For those of you fellow New Yorkers, check the small fanboy stores...particularly in and around the Village.]

So I'd thought I'd start a new thread for questions, answers, other early reviews, etc. [I didn't put this in the RotK:EE spoiler thread because several folks there were already saying they felt overspoilt.]

Just to throw out a new, non-Jedi tidbit to start things off, regarding the extended Finding of the Ring (Smeagol v. Deagol), the only difference seems to be that its now much clearer Deagol doesn't die "accidentally" in the struggle...Smeagol gets an upper hand earlier, and there's a longer shot of Andy Serkis choking an increasingly feeble and vulnerable Deagol.

And it looks like the same title screen. For shame!

More to come! :)
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Postby Telemachos » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:27 pm

I hate you.
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Postby Farawen » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:33 pm

And I'm gonna cry.
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Postby Primula_Baggins » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:36 pm

:pull:

You lucky . . . TOS violation, you!

So spill the beans, all of them--Marty-style.

At this point my burning question is: In the Mouth of Sauron scene, why does Aragorn kill the MoS? Does Aragorn just lose his temper, or is there some justification for the killing (some imminent physical threat)?
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:41 pm

Telemachos, Farawen...I'm sorry. I didn't want to be a downer. :( I was just trying to spread my joy.

I don't know how much I should or shouldn't spoil, so I'll throw out a few choice lines from early (and very cool) VOS and let y'all take it:

Gandalf: "Be careful. Even in defeat Saruman is dangerous."

...

Saruman: "You have fought many wars and slain many men, Theoden King, and made peace afterwards. Can we not take counsel together as we once did, my old friend? Can we not have peace, you and I?"
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Postby semuta » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:43 pm

You glorious bunnyslipper.

DOES "STREET DATE" NOT MEAN A THING ANYMORE?!?! I demand that the armed forces guard every cache of EE's until I get my copy!

I want details, many many details!

ps- please type all new scenes/dialog verbatim. heh.

pps- I can't believe they didn't move the title to a new spot! Lame, PJ, especially after your TTT:EE commentary explaining such moves.
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Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:45 pm

And so it begins! ;)

Kevin, my question is the same as Prim's.
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Postby Primula_Baggins » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:45 pm

Those are green tears of purest envy, kevinc! :)

Why not make this a total spoiler thread? Like Marty's last year, when he saw RotK on Thanksgiving Day. He spilled everything. People who didn't want to know just stayed away. The rest of us hung on his every word.

If the thread title says "Massive Spoilers" or something similar, anyone who comes in will know what they're in for. Why be coy?
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Postby Farawen » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:48 pm

LOL! Aww kcm, that's okay. :D Only kidding, of course. I mean, I'm green with envy and actually checking air fares to NYC as we speak, but I'm sure no one here has a prob with you spreading your joy. :)

Now, tell us more of that EE of yours...

Does it have that great "New DVD" Smell™? Does the blue cover look as pretty in real as it does in the pictures?

And what about the MOS scene dilemma that Prim mentioned?

And VOS?

And the Houses of Healing?

*want*

t minus 9 dayssssss.
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Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:48 pm

My other question is what is Saruman referring to when he says that there is something festering in the heart of Middle-earth before he says "the line."
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Postby semuta » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:53 pm

Now is your chance to join the illustrious ranks of The Great Marty(tm), so spill it all, son.

Please please please tell me about the new Cirith Ungol material, and if we see The Watchers in action.
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Postby Primula_Baggins » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:54 pm

Oh, and after Saruman says "You're all going to die!" does he:

    (a) twirl his mustachios
    (b) waggle his eyebrows up and down
    (c) laugh (MUAH HAH HAH HAH HAHHHHHH!)
    (d) sneer
    (e) all of the above


Voronwe simply must know, but he's too shy to ask.
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:54 pm

Ok, massive spoilers it is...

Regarding the MOS, first off, his mouth looks a LOT worse on a television than it does on my computer screen.

That being said, Prim, you're not going to like this. Not...one...bit.

After the end of the AOL clip we saw ("And he did, Gandalf, he did"), Aragorn rides forth from the pack and moves closer to the MOS, with (I kid you not) a strange smile on his face.

MOS: And who is this, Isildur's heir? It takes more to make a king than a broken Elvish blade..."

Smile turns to fury, and Aragorn decapitates him in mid-sentence. Seriously.

Merry gasps. Gandalf (at least) looks disgusted. Gimli makes the "I guess that concludes negotiations" line.

Aragorn (angrily): "I do not believe him! I..will not."

So, Aragorn does strike him down in mid-parley. Gandalf seems disapproving, but that's as far as it goes.

By the way, this is all happening while Frodo has collapsed in Mordor, with the eye of Sauron (the lighthouse) on him.
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Postby Primula_Baggins » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:57 pm

:cry:

Thanks, kcm.

I'm sure you'll have some good news for us, too.
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Postby Farawen » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:04 pm

Eh.

That is really not so much with the yay.
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Postby anuhealani » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:05 pm

:x :x :x
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Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:05 pm

Unbelievable. :x :cry:

But at least now we know for sure. Based on what is said in the Weapons and Warfare book (probably the most accurate of the companion books), I was pretty sure that it would be bad.

But not that bad. :(

I must say, while I am looking forward to seeing the other stuff, this puts a damper on my appreciation of the entire project. It is so much more "wrong" then anything that they did, in my opinion. Everything else, even Gandalf whacking Denethor, the Gollum beating, and Frodo sending Sam home, at least has some sort of explanation. This is just wrong. Wrong. WRONG.

But at least we know about it now. I could imagine seeing this for the first time and really freaking out.

Edit: What does PJ, Frand and/or Philippa say about this in the commentary?

Edit2: Kevin, would you mind if I mention at ComingSoon!.net that a fellow TORCer has the DVD and is answering questions here?
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:10 pm

Regarding VOS [which is really, really great], I won't type it all out, but here's a nice Tolkien-referential exchange near the beginning.

Theoden: "We shall have peace. We shall have peace when you answer for the burning of the Westfold, and the children that lie dead there! We shall have peace, when the lives of the soldiers whose bodies were hewn even as they lay dead against the gates of the Hornburg, are avenged! When you hang from a gibbet for the sport of your own crows! We shall have peace!

Saruman: "Gibbets and crows! Dolt! What do you want, Gandalf Greyhame? Let me guess, the key of Orthanc, or perhaps the keys of Barad-Dur itself, along with the crowns of the seven kings and the rods of the five wizards?!"

...

here's the full line y'all were asking about. [Saruman has just pulled out the palantir.]

Saruman: "So you have come here for information. I have some for you. [out comes palantir] Something festers in the heart of Middle Earth, something you have failed to see. [looks into palantir] "

"But the Great Eye has seen it. Even now, he presses his advantage. His attack will come soon [Gandalf rides closer.] You are all going to die."

[At this point, there's no Saruman reaction at all. It cuts to Merry looking very fearful, and then to Aragorn looking resolute.]

"But you know this, don't you, Gandalf? You cannot think that this ranger will ever sit upon the throne of Gondor, this exile crept from the shadows will never be crowned king. Gandalf does not hesitate to sacrifice those closest to him, those he professes to love. Tell me, what words of comfort did you give the halfling before you sent him to his doom? [Ooh, that one hurts Gandalf] The path that you set him on can only lead to death."

Then it's fireball time...
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Postby Mighty_Squid » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:13 pm

Hey Kev!

Care to give a city girl a hint exactly where in the village? I don't know that area well and I'd hate to go wondering alone tonight.

:)
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Postby balrogthane » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:15 pm

OCH!

*TOS violation* you, Peter Jackson! :x :( :cry:

-(----
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Postby Wingaling_Balrog » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:16 pm

I think I'm going to just close my eyes and pretend that Aragorn didn't kill the MOS. I really can't understand that one at all, but we'll have to learn to ignore it.

That VOS description, on the other hand, sounds amazing! A couple of questions, where does Wormtongue appear from? Do we see him come out of the roof of Orthanc? Is there any mention of poisoning Theodred?
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:18 pm

Regarding the VOS, Saruman gets a few more choice digs in...like i said, I don't want to give away every line. But it all comes off very well (and better than the MOS)

Voronwe, that's fine to alert CS.

[Update]Ok, that TORN-mentioned place on 40th & 8th isn't where I procured the RotK, so if it's popping up all over NYC, I'll just spit it out.

I got it at Forbidden Planet, just S. of the Virgin Megastore in Union Square.
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Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:21 pm

Well, I still don't understand exactly what he is referring to as "festering in the heart of Middle-earth" but that does sound great.

I will alert the CS! people.
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Postby semuta » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:25 pm

VOS sounds excellent!

Squiddie, there is a description of a NYC seller on TORn right now. Top article.
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:30 pm

MOS Commentary: PJ talks about the shooting site (something or other about it being a minefield with unexploded bombs), then Bruce Spence (in Mad Max III, and how he, Dourif and Lee were all cut from the RotK:TE), then the "Mouth" special effect (it's actually Bruce Spence's mouth, but it's been enlarged in post-production.)

Then during the deed...

PJ: "Another Aragorn beheading...heads getting chopped off tend to pop up in these extended cuts (chuckle) something I'm quite grateful for, I have to say. [Yep, Bad Taste PJ.]

PJ: One of the main problems was that all the characters are engaging in the possible death of Frodo at a time that, because the film is made in chronological order, we know that Frodo is alive and well, so suddenly your characters are playing things you're not buying into...[goes on more about book version works because it's non-chronological, and how they felt they had to cut the MOS for this reason]

Fran and Phillipa are completely silent.
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Postby Voronwe_the_Faithful » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:46 pm

Thanks, kevin! :)

PJ really doesn't seem to get it, does he?
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Postby kevincmurphy » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:47 pm

Wingaling, regarding Grima-and-VOS, Grima just comes into view...there's no mention of how he got up there. I didn't hear anything about poisoning Theoden...basically Theoden forgives Grima while Saruman slaps him and calls him a cur. Advantage: Theoden.

By the way, Gandalf is still pressing Saruman for info when Grima stabs him in the back, which may be another reason why Legolas lets fly with the arrow.
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Postby Perian » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:48 pm

Kevin, is the "we shall see the Shire again" moment from the trailer in?
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Postby Elf_Lady2001 » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:50 pm

Am extremely jealous. :wink: Now I need to avoid this thread as I think I've reached my spoiler limit. :P
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Postby semuta » Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:53 pm

Kevin, what's the new material at Cirith Ungol?
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