~Fea~*
Petitioner to the Council
Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 15 Jun 2005
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3
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Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 3:05 pm |
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Sauron and the Palantiri
In the Two Towers in the chapter "the palantir", Gandalf says to Pippin:
'Then it was not made, not made' - Pippin hesitated - 'by the Enemy?'
'No,' said Gandalf, 'Nor by Saruman. It is beyond his art, and beyond Sauron's too. The Palantiri came from beyond Westernesse, from Eldamar. The Noldor made them. Feanor himself, maybe......'
so, i was wondering.......why are the palantiri beyond Sauron's art? he is a maia, but Feanor is an elf, so wasn't he more powerful? he is one of the ainur! and he could make and control the One Ring....  : 
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scirocco
released from bonds
Alliance: House of Feanor
Last Visited: 27 Aug 2010
Joined: 04 Oct 2000
Posts: 1952
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 1:56 am |
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The making of the
palantiri
isn't just a question of power and strength, it is a question of skill and craftsmanship. Unlike the making of the One Ring, which was an un-natural and evil harnessing of Sauron's power, the making of the
palantiri
(and the Silmarils) is simply an expression of the finely honed skills of the Noldor, and Feanor in particular.
So the fact that Feanor and his kin were "only" Eldar, not Maiar, is not really that relevant. Even so, don't forget that the Elves of Valinor were as far above the Elves of Middle-earth as those Elves were above Men, and Feanor was the most skilled and subtle among them. In some ways, he was on a par with the Maiar, and Tolkien reinforces this idea with his ability to create the Silmarils and
palantiri
. And Feanor spent thousands of years in Valinor practising his skills to do so.
Both Sauron and Saruman might have been able to have made the
palantiri
if they had spent a similar amount of time in study and practice. But Sauron in particular directed his energies in other directions.
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The Eagle from
Bilbo woke up with the early sun in his eyes
J.R.R. Tolkien, July 1937 |
Last edited by scirocco on Wed May 18, 2005 2:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Prince_of_the_Halflings
Shield Bearer
Alliance: The Shire
Last Visited: 25 Feb 2010
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 298
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Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 2:07 am |
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Interesting thought, Fea, but it's not just a matter of who's more powerful. Just because Sauron was more powerful than Feanor doesn't mean that Sauron was smarter or more skillful.
For example, if it was just a question of being "powerful", then Morgoth (who was a Vala) wouldn't have needed to steal the Silmarils, he could have just made his own.
Another thing, Sauron didn't make the One Ring entirely on his own. He learned some of the craft of ring making from the Elven Smiths of Eregion.
There's also a question of whether it is even possible for corrupted individuals such as Sauron (and Morgoth) to create things like Palantiri or Silmarils... Aside from the Ring, Sauron was much better known for corrupting, dominating or destroying things rather than creating things. It goes without saying that the Ring was created with the sole purpose of dominating others (despite being the one fair thing that Sauron ever made, as Isildur famously observed). In other words, Sauron largely used his "power" to control and dominate, rather than to create.
If Sauron had attempted to make something like a Palantir, then presumably it would have been made with the sole intention of subjecting the user to Sauron's will. Sauron tried to bend the Palantiri that did exist to the same purpose but he did not have sufficient skill to be totally successful (although he did manage to ensnare Saruman).
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Maegnas
Ranger of the North
Alliance: House of Fingolfin
Last Visited: 09 Sep 2007
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Posts: 4008
Location: Greece
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Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 2:43 pm |
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Being powerful Fea doesn't mean that you're automatically wise or skillful enough to make something like the palantiri. Aspects of this thought are widespread today, if only you take the time and look around. The powerful of our world aren't necessarily (sp?) wise or even skillful (I won't use the obvious paradigm here because I think GWB has been overrated in his underratingness ). Surely power these days is measured in weapons, money, oil maybe, subjecting others to serve your interests through diplomacy (and its finest hour - preventive wars!). What measures greatness these days? Think about it a little and you will understand what I say. Sauron was powerful, no doubt, but Feanor was Great! The powerful one measured his power by destruction whereas the Great one measured his greatness by the creations of his hands. No wonder Sauron could not perceive the craftmanship needed to make the palantiri - its modern analogy would be to ask a B-2 pilot to build the Parthenon (or to make it easier for the poor guy, to build the bombs he unleashes whenever ordered to do so)!
Anyway, a good idea for discussion. Thanks for providing the fuel for exchanging views.
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